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Update user-inactivity.html #4122

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mbgower
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@mbgower mbgower commented Oct 28, 2024

Added a css "note" class to the paragraph following the definition.

Resolves #4117

Note: the reorder for alphabetically listing the definitions, that was previously part of this change, is now covered by #4256


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Added a css "note" class to the paragraph following the definition.
@mbgower mbgower added the ErratumRaised Potential erratum for a Recommendation label Oct 28, 2024
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put in correct alphabetical order
@mbgower mbgower self-assigned this Nov 1, 2024
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Discussed and approved on backlog call 11/1.

@alastc alastc mentioned this pull request Nov 22, 2024
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alastc commented Dec 16, 2024

Cross linking #4149, I raised an issue after reviewing all the definitions.

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Discussed on backlog call 1/7. Mike agreed to split into two PRs since correcting alphabetical order is an obvious fix. The class change is also editorial, but use of NOTES in spec is a sensitive topic. Stays in For discussion.

Removing change to index.html (now covered in #4256 ) to make it easier to differentiate between the scale of changes for the two changes to the definitions proposed.
@mbgower mbgower force-pushed the 4117_user_inactivity branch from 241494c to 1407529 Compare February 28, 2025 19:32
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Discussed on backlog call 3/7. As noted at top, this PR now separates the corrections.

@mbgower mbgower removed their assignment Mar 28, 2025
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alastc commented Apr 15, 2025

Comment from Gregg in the call: We can't change this to a note as it changes the definition. Could update to join the sentences together, e.g. with a "where".

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Couple Comments

  1. you can't have two sentences in a good definition. In fact there should be no sentences -- the definition should be a phrase that can replace the word/term in the sentence in which it is used
  2. A note cannot change the definition in any way. They can only explain what is already in the definition to make it easier to understand. It cannot expand or limit the definition in any way.

now to your suggested change

  1. The sentence you want to break off is not a valid note if it limits the definition to only be those cases where -- the method of tracking will be determined by the web site or application.
  2. the proper way to handle it if this is the case would be to add that condition to the definition itself - but not as a separate sentence. This can be done with the word "where"

user inactivity
any continuous period of time where no user actions occur, where the method of tracking will be determined by the web site or application.

OR if the method of tracking is not important -- then the note can be

NOTE: The method of tracking is not important but is generally determined by the web site or application.

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mbgower commented Apr 17, 2025

A note cannot change the definition in any way. They can only explain what is already in the definition to make it easier to understand. It cannot expand or limit the definition in any way.

I completely agree with this principle, and it is my goal to follow it when creating new normative material. However, the reality is that some notes in the existing standard do clearly affect the definition. The massive discussion we're involved in in #1790, concerning the notes for audio description, is a perfect example. The word "pause" never appears in normative text of the SC or definition; it's in a note, yet it has become the focus of a considerable amount of commentary.

In such cases, the best it seems we can hope to do is either leave things alone and put up with the churn, or attempt to do the smallest change that produces a positive outcome for the standard.

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Can anyone think of a scenario where not having the sentence would change the results of an audit? It seems like a pretty obvious statement of fact.

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mbgower commented Apr 25, 2025

@GreggVan

you can't have two sentences in a good definition.

This was a motivator in why we were proposing this change. However, note that there are 10 definitions in WCAG that exceed one sentence and a half dozen others that are list structures. Alastair identified a number of other definitions that are constructed similar to this one and seem to be candidates for the second sentence being a note. #4149

In fact there should be no sentences -- the definition should be a phrase that can replace the word/term in the sentence in which it is used

I've noted that almost all the definitions do not end in terminal punctuation, which reinforces that idea; however, I identified 2 SCs that end in periods that can stand without them, and will generate a small normative PR to change those.

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alastc commented Apr 25, 2025

Noting that the very first draft of this (for WCAG 2.1), started off as one paragraph. I'm inclined to drop this change, although we should avoid such framing in future.

@mbgower mbgower closed this May 2, 2025
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Definition of 'user inactivity' seems to include a Note that isn't marked up as a note
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