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MSC4140: Delayed events #4140

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@toger5 toger5 commented May 7, 2024 •
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This could also supersede MSC2228 (by making it possible to send a redaction with the /send endpoint. This is the case as mentioned here)

Implementations:

SCT stuff:

checklist

FCP not yet started

toger5 added 2 commits May 7, 2024 18:52
@toger5
draft for expiring event PR
480b00a 
Signed-off-by: Timo K <toger5@hotmail.de>
@toger5
Add msc number
8839b8d 
Signed-off-by: Timo K <toger5@hotmail.de>
@toger5 toger5 force-pushed the toger5/expiring-events-keep-alive branch from 2bc07c4 to 0eb1abc Compare May 7, 2024 17:03
@toger5
add security consideration and alternatives
8bf6db7 
Signed-off-by: Timo K <toger5@hotmail.de>
@toger5 toger5 force-pushed the toger5/expiring-events-keep-alive branch from 0eb1abc to 8bf6db7 Compare May 8, 2024 15:49
@toger5
alternative name and alternative content
8ec6374 
Signed-off-by: Timo K <toger5@hotmail.de>
AndrewFerr
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review andrewF
9f45cfa 
Signed-off-by: Timo K <toger5@hotmail.de>
@turt2live turt2live changed the title Draft for expiring event PR MSC4140: Expiring events with keep alive endpoint May 9, 2024
@turt2live turt2live added proposal A matrix spec change proposal client-server Client-Server API kind:feature MSC for not-core and not-maintenance stuff needs-implementation This MSC does not have a qualifying implementation for the SCT to review. The MSC cannot enter FCP. labels May 9, 2024
@toger5 toger5 force-pushed the toger5/expiring-events-keep-alive branch from 3e54c2a to c82adf7 Compare May 10, 2024 17:54
@toger5
draft of iteration two (after meeting with the backend team)
54fff99 
Signed-off-by: Timo K <toger5@hotmail.de>
@toger5 toger5 force-pushed the toger5/expiring-events-keep-alive branch from c82adf7 to 54fff99 Compare May 10, 2024 18:08
toger5 added 3 commits May 13, 2024 16:56
@toger5
timeout_refresh_token is not a well description since the same token …
abdfe1c 
…is used to trigger on of the actions

Signed-off-by: Timo K <toger5@hotmail.de>
@toger5
rename msc, rephrase introduction
53f6186 
Signed-off-by: Timo K <toger5@hotmail.de>
@toger5
Add usecase specific section.
087c74e 
Add event type to the body
Add event id template variable
MatMaul
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@AndrewFerr AndrewFerr mentioned this pull request May 22, 2024
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toger5 and others added 2 commits May 31, 2024 09:20
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Update proposals/4140-delayed-events-futures.md
c16afbc 
Co-authored-by: Andrew Ferrazzutti <af_0_af@hotmail.com>
@toger5
batch sending considerations
c52c80d
yingziwu added a commit to yingziwu/synapse that referenced this pull request Oct 17, 2024
@yingziwu
Merge tag 'v1.117.0' into develop
5250b5e 
No significant changes since 1.117.0rc1.

- Add config option `redis.password_path`. ([\#17717](element-hq/synapse#17717))

- Fix a rare bug introduced in v1.29.0 where invalidating a user's access token from a worker could raise an error. ([\#17779](element-hq/synapse#17779))
- In the response to `GET /_matrix/client/versions`, set the `unstable_features` flag for [MSC4140](matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals#4140) to `false` when server configuration disables support for delayed events. ([\#17780](element-hq/synapse#17780))
- Improve input validation and room membership checks in admin redaction API. ([\#17792](element-hq/synapse#17792))

- Clarify the docstring of `test_forget_when_not_left`. ([\#17628](element-hq/synapse#17628))
- Add documentation note about PYTHONMALLOC for accurate jemalloc memory tracking. Contributed by @hensg. ([\#17709](element-hq/synapse#17709))
- Remove spurious "TODO UPDATE ALL THIS" note in the Debian installation docs. ([\#17749](element-hq/synapse#17749))
- Explain how load balancing works for `federation_sender_instances`. ([\#17776](element-hq/synapse#17776))

- Minor performance increase for large accounts using sliding sync. ([\#17751](element-hq/synapse#17751))
- Increase performance of the notifier when there are many syncing users. ([\#17765](element-hq/synapse#17765), [\#17766](element-hq/synapse#17766))
- Fix performance of streams that don't change often. ([\#17767](element-hq/synapse#17767))
- Improve performance of sliding sync connections that do not ask for any rooms. ([\#17768](element-hq/synapse#17768))
- Reduce overhead of sliding sync E2EE loops. ([\#17771](element-hq/synapse#17771))
- Sliding sync minor performance speed up using new table. ([\#17787](element-hq/synapse#17787))
- Sliding sync minor performance improvement by omitting unchanged data from incremental responses. ([\#17788](element-hq/synapse#17788))
- Speed up sliding sync when there are many active subscriptions. ([\#17789](element-hq/synapse#17789))
- Add missing license headers on new source files. ([\#17799](element-hq/synapse#17799))

* Bump phonenumbers from 8.13.45 to 8.13.46. ([\#17773](element-hq/synapse#17773))
* Bump python-multipart from 0.0.10 to 0.0.12. ([\#17772](element-hq/synapse#17772))
* Bump regex from 1.10.6 to 1.11.0. ([\#17770](element-hq/synapse#17770))
* Bump ruff from 0.6.7 to 0.6.8. ([\#17774](element-hq/synapse#17774))
@t3chguy t3chguy mentioned this pull request Nov 25, 2024
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spaetz commented Feb 25, 2025

Given element-call is the default VOIP solution in EX clients, and I CONSTANTLY have to help people to get calls unstuck (so often that I had to write up instructions on how toresolve them at https://sspaeth.de/2025/02/how-to-resolve-stuck-matrixrtc-calls/ :-).
So it would be a blast to get this one moving again. Thanks for considering.

netbsd-srcmastr pushed a commit to NetBSD/pkgsrc that referenced this pull request Mar 27, 2025
@Midar
Update chat/matrix-synapse to 1.127.1
5d7bfea 
Fixes high severity vulnerability *exploited in the wild*!


# Synapse 1.127.1 (2025-03-26)

## Security
- Fix [CVE-2025-30355](https://www.cve.org/CVERecord?id=CVE-2025-30355) / [GHSA-v56r-hwv5-mxg6](GHSA-v56r-hwv5-mxg6). **High severity vulnerability affecting federation. The vulnerability has been exploited in the wild.**



# Synapse 1.127.0 (2025-03-25)

No significant changes since 1.127.0rc1.




# Synapse 1.127.0rc1 (2025-03-18)

### Features

- Update [MSC4140](matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals#4140) implementation to no longer cancel a user's own delayed state events with an event type & state key that match a more recent state event sent by that user. ([\#17810](element-hq/synapse#17810))

### Improved Documentation

- Fixed a minor typo in the Synapse documentation. Contributed by @karuto12. ([\#18224](element-hq/synapse#18224))

### Internal Changes

- Remove undocumented `SYNAPSE_USE_FROZEN_DICTS` environment variable. ([\#18123](element-hq/synapse#18123))
- Fix detection of workflow failures in the release script. ([\#18211](element-hq/synapse#18211))
- Add caching support to media endpoints. ([\#18235](element-hq/synapse#18235))



### Updates to locked dependencies

* Bump anyhow from 1.0.96 to 1.0.97. ([\#18201](element-hq/synapse#18201))
* Bump bcrypt from 4.2.1 to 4.3.0. ([\#18207](element-hq/synapse#18207))
* Bump bytes from 1.10.0 to 1.10.1. ([\#18227](element-hq/synapse#18227))
* Bump http from 1.2.0 to 1.3.1. ([\#18245](element-hq/synapse#18245))
* Bump sentry-sdk from 2.19.2 to 2.22.0. ([\#18205](element-hq/synapse#18205))
* Bump serde from 1.0.218 to 1.0.219. ([\#18228](element-hq/synapse#18228))
* Bump serde_json from 1.0.139 to 1.0.140. ([\#18202](element-hq/synapse#18202))
* Bump ulid from 1.2.0 to 1.2.1. ([\#18246](element-hq/synapse#18246))
yingziwu added a commit to yingziwu/synapse that referenced this pull request Apr 13, 2025
@yingziwu
Merge tag 'v1.127.0' into develop
fd7b743 
No significant changes since 1.127.0rc1.

- Update [MSC4140](matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals#4140) implementation to no longer cancel a user's own delayed state events with an event type & state key that match a more recent state event sent by that user. ([\#17810](element-hq/synapse#17810))

- Fixed a minor typo in the Synapse documentation. Contributed by @karuto12. ([\#18224](element-hq/synapse#18224))

- Remove undocumented `SYNAPSE_USE_FROZEN_DICTS` environment variable. ([\#18123](element-hq/synapse#18123))
- Fix detection of workflow failures in the release script. ([\#18211](element-hq/synapse#18211))
- Add caching support to media endpoints. ([\#18235](element-hq/synapse#18235))

* Bump anyhow from 1.0.96 to 1.0.97. ([\#18201](element-hq/synapse#18201))
* Bump bcrypt from 4.2.1 to 4.3.0. ([\#18207](element-hq/synapse#18207))
* Bump bytes from 1.10.0 to 1.10.1. ([\#18227](element-hq/synapse#18227))
* Bump http from 1.2.0 to 1.3.1. ([\#18245](element-hq/synapse#18245))
* Bump sentry-sdk from 2.19.2 to 2.22.0. ([\#18205](element-hq/synapse#18205))
* Bump serde from 1.0.218 to 1.0.219. ([\#18228](element-hq/synapse#18228))
* Bump serde_json from 1.0.139 to 1.0.140. ([\#18202](element-hq/synapse#18202))
* Bump ulid from 1.2.0 to 1.2.1. ([\#18246](element-hq/synapse#18246))
@toger5 toger5 changed the title MSC4140: Cancellable delayed events MSC4140: Delayed events Apr 15, 2025
@turt2live turt2live added implementation-needs-checking The MSC has an implementation, but the SCT has not yet checked it. and removed needs-implementation This MSC does not have a qualifying implementation for the SCT to review. The MSC cannot enter FCP. labels Apr 15, 2025
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turt2live commented Apr 15, 2025 •
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MSCs proposed for Final Comment Period (FCP) should meet the requirements outlined in the checklist prior to being accepted into the spec. This checklist is a bit long, but aims to reduce the number of follow-on MSCs after a feature lands.

SCT members: please check off things you check for, and raise a concern against FCP if the checklist is incomplete. If an item doesn't apply, prefer to check it rather than remove it. Unchecking items is encouraged where applicable.

Checklist:

  • Are appropriate implementation(s)
    specified in the MSC’s PR description?
  • Are all MSCs that this MSC depends on already accepted?
  • For each new endpoint that is introduced:
    • Have authentication requirements been specified?
    • Have rate-limiting requirements been specified?
    • Have guest access requirements been specified?
    • Are error responses specified?
      • Does each error case have a specified errcode (e.g. M_FORBIDDEN) and HTTP status code?
        • If a new errcode is introduced, is it clear that it is new?
  • Will the MSC require a new room version, and if so, has that been made clear?
    • Is the reason for a new room version clearly stated? For example,
      modifying the set of redacted fields changes how event IDs are calculated,
      thus requiring a new room version.
  • Are backwards-compatibility concerns appropriately addressed?
  • Are the endpoint conventions honoured?
    • Do HTTP endpoints use_underscores_like_this?
    • Will the endpoint return unbounded data? If so, has pagination been considered?
    • If the endpoint utilises pagination, is it consistent with
      the appendices?
  • An introduction exists and clearly outlines the problem being solved.
    Ideally, the first paragraph should be understandable by a non-technical audience.
  • All outstanding threads are resolved
    • All feedback is incorporated into the proposal text itself, either as a fix or noted as an alternative
  • While the exact sections do not need to be present,
    the details implied by the proposal template are covered. Namely:
    • Introduction
    • Proposal text
    • Potential issues
    • Alternatives
    • Dependencies
  • Stable identifiers are used throughout the proposal, except for the unstable prefix section
    • Unstable prefixes consider the awkward accepted-but-not-merged state
    • Chosen unstable prefixes do not pollute any global namespace (use “org.matrix.mscXXXX”, not “org.matrix”).
  • Changes have applicable Sign Off from all authors/editors/contributors
  • There is a dedicated "Security Considerations" section which detail
    any possible attacks/vulnerabilities this proposal may introduce, even if this is "None.".
    See RFC3552 for things to think about,
    but in particular pay attention to the OWASP Top Ten.

@github-project-automation github-project-automation bot moved this to Needs idea feedback / initial review in Spec Core Team Workflow Apr 15, 2025
@turt2live turt2live moved this from Needs idea feedback / initial review to Ready for FCP ticks in Spec Core Team Workflow Apr 15, 2025
@turt2live turt2live moved this from Ready for FCP ticks to Proposed for FCP readiness in Spec Core Team Workflow Apr 15, 2025
@turt2live turt2live added voip matrix-2.0 Required for Matrix 2.0 labels Jul 8, 2025
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sorry for the massive review - this is editorial stuff that was picked up while reviewing the checklist for the MSC. Where possible, I've added suggestions to make resolution a bit easier/faster (hopefully).

After the MSC is ready for re-review, let us know in the SCT Office and we'll get some technical content reviews going, including a push towards FCP.

proposals/4140-delayed-events-futures.md
Comment on lines +544 to +545
A scoped token that only allows to interact with the `delayed_events` endpoint and only with a subset of `delay_id`s
would be used.
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it'd probably be scoped to being allowed to send certain event types without delay, so when the SFU determines the user has dropped, it can send the event itself at that time.

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Both work. The advantage here is that a scoped token to only manage already send and signed delayed events is "very" save.
If we allow the SFU to send staate events (even if scoped to one type and room) is already a bit much. The SFU also does not need to be a trusted instance (The MatrixRTC spec is designed so it would break but it would not be a vounerablility if the SFU is malicious. It cannot even inject abusive content into the call since the source of truth is the room state.)

Additionally state events should be signed (or even better encrypted) to really make MatrixRTC as secure as possible. Then the SFU could not send a signed leave event but the delayed delegation still would work.

Do we want this discussion to be evaluated in the MSC text?

proposals/4140-delayed-events-futures.md Outdated

All new endpoints are authenticated.

Servers **should** impose a maximum timeout value for delay timeouts of not more than a month.
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Discussed out of band: It appears the implementation doesn't do this, which is fine, but adding rationale either here or to the Synapse docs as to why limiting to more than a month is a bad idea would be good (or, remove this line and leave it up to implementations to figure out).

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This has been adressed in: bf5df9b

@turt2live turt2live self-requested a review July 10, 2025 16:52
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