untrack in Show / For missing from the docs and improve when re-executed

[mizulu]

reported by alina in discord server

@davedbase
got banned in discord for criticizing closing my PR by @LadyBluenotes
#1161

It is possible that she is using a bot, to auto close, but it shows that it is from her
so I was shocked when, the issue was closed without any ability to reply or correct
the missing [x] for the I have read the contribution , I have thought that I have made something wrong
and and was referred to a long document to try to figure out what I have done wrong .

so I am cc' you, to make sure @LadyBluenotes have solid docs as top priority
and does not just close this PR without any explanation.

also she should not ban people in discord just because someone calls her process out.

it looks like raising issues are not really welcomed, when you just get banned

[davedbase]

First and foremost our community strives to be about improvement, progress and friendliness. Your feedback and opinions are welcomed and they will be verified, validated and applied according to the teams availability and processes. They also reserve the right to decide what contributions to accept and close. These processes are setup and designed to ease and manage growing demand.

I was just briefed and brought up to date on the situation and it seems reasonable for me to state that both parties could and should have done better in this situation. I'm disappointed that the got out of hand and ask that both parties resort to a friendlier and more understanding attitude. We're all here to accomplish the same goals together after all.

@LadyBluenotes was not using a bot. I've spoken with her and she explained that her reason for closing issue 1161 was reasonable however I would have preferred if she was more descriptive or provided more helpful guidance to you. Her key message was that your issue should have rationalized the purpose of removing the one line. Not every issue is instantly accepted for docs as there are often unwanted modifications. There are consequences to adding/removing details in the docs that impact users as well. Our docs team needs to understand the reason for a change or they may inadvertently redact something that core or other team members specifically requested.

Issues that do not do an adequate job of documenting the reason and request for doing so are closed for not following the practice we expect of contributors, you are instead guided to the contribution document. In the future it would helpful if you expanded on your rationalization with 1-2 sentences to support the hard working docs people but also for providing documentation in the form of an issue as to why a detail was adjusted in the docs. This is a minimum and reasonable expectation for any contributor in any community and shouldn't be too onerous on you.

As for being banned, I would have preferred if you were not instantly banned however you did violate the rules of the server. You were unfriendly, unkind and inconsiderate of the fact that everyone in the community works incredibly hard in their day jobs and then donates their pressure time outside of that. These screenshots are unbecoming of a reasonable Solid community member:

Calling someone lazy and saying their work is bad is unacceptable, not just in the Solid community but any open-source community. Also msging me and compelling me to replace someone because you didn't receive the answer that you liked is simply not rational. Also indicating that you were overreacting is indicative that you recognize that it was unacceptable.

In summary, I think instead of a ban you could have been given an initial warning. I also suggested that @LadyBluenotes revises her approach to closing out tickets and post a more friendly message that supports and guides you to the result she was expecting. Presenting something in a more friendly way is always a positive. I'm willing to lift your Discord ban assuming you're willing to have a different attitude and present a more friendly and supportive approach to moderators and team members. I've also spoken with LadyBluenotes and asked her to do the same.

I hope you will consider this response considerate and fair handed to both sides. Once again we're all here to to do good work. In regards to Issue #1161 please feel free to comment with 1-2 sentences that guide the docs team into investigating why and if it should be removed. Feel free to DM my directly on Discord if you have any further concerns.

Have a wonderful day! :-)

[mizulu]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply

The reason for #1161 was just a few messages above.

Calling someone lazy and saying their work is bad is unacceptable,
The "lazy" was directed not to her work, but specifically to the response in my PR basically "go read the RTFM"
which in this case is 2000 words without any guidance. I was simply baffled

same goes for why I suggested having someone else handling the docs, in my opinion
the way my PR was handled, is a "no no" for open source projects.
lacks the spirit of collaborative and welcoming attitude. otherwise the quality of the docs / project suffers.

The fact that I thought it was a bot response, speaks loudly.

"no wonder the docs are that bad"

the point was , if one can't easily contribute or have a professional dialog on a PR
you can't fix the bad parts. and I was thinking specifically about my PR
and meant it like this :
"if one can't make improvement no wonder the docs are that bad"

at that point, I will also note that the PR was not just closed but also locked, with no ability
to comment or have a recourse or follow up

Also indicating that you were overreacting is indicative that you recognize that it was unacceptable.
I have admitted to over reacting, because I had a realization that it might have been an automated
action by a bot, and not a personal action made by the project lead.

my phrasing might have been harsh, but I think they have merit, I realize now I could have just
have brought it up with you in private. but I did not think about it when things were said in spare of the moment.

[mizulu]

@davedbase
why is this issue closed

"untrack in Show / For missing from the docs and improve when re-executed #1162"

do you want me to open another issue

edit: created new issue so it is not lost

[LadyBluenotes]

Hello @mizulu.

I wanted to personally reach out and apologize for not providing more context in my earlier response. Looking back, I realize I should’ve explained more clearly why I was pointing you to the guidelines. I definitely understand how frustrating it can be to receive a short reply without enough direction, and I’m genuinely sorry for how that must have come across.

For context, too, I didn’t realize I had locked the issue until things had already progressed further, and I can see how that added to the frustration. That definitely wasn’t my intention and that is on, I apologize.

As Dave mentioned, Solid, like many open source projects, runs almost entirely on the time and effort of volunteers, this includes the docs. Everyone contributing does so around their jobs, families, and other responsibilities, and we try to approach all contributions with respect and appreciation. In doubling down on calling the docs "bad", it’s disheartening because it overlooks the care and hard work that’s gone into them to get them to this point, from myself and the many others in the community.

That said, I do want to gently remind you that jumping to the language you used, especially in a space where we're all trying to work together, does not help us move forward. There’s absolutely room to voice frustration or disagree with how things are done, but how we express those feelings really matters, especially because there are real people on the other side doing their best.

I’m always open to thoughtful feedback and genuinely want to improve where I can, but it’s so much easier to have those conversations when they’re rooted in kindness and mutual respect. When things are framed harshly, it can shut down these conversations before they even have a chance of moving forward. I get that emotions can run high but I really believe we get further when we approach each other with curiosity and assume the best in one another.

To clarify for your other point regarding why things were closed, this issue and the previous PR are closed because they do not give enough context for why they were opened in the first place. The new issue you opened up does a great job at providing more context so that we can properly address things.

Thank you for your understanding and we appreciate your time.

[mizulu]

I apologize if the word lazy offended you. like I said before it was not about your overall contribution
to the project but specifically to your response to me in the PR.

I don't think it justified the ban. but emotion did run high and we understand that we all make mistakes.
and we can do better in the future in how we handle things.

@davedbase said worst things to me, and I don't ban him.

You were unfriendly, unkind and inconsiderate of the fact that everyone in the community works incredibly hard in their day jobs and then donates their pressure time outside of that.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions

[mizulu]

@davedbase @LadyBluenotes

if there is more that need to be discussed in the matter
please let me know.

Thank you for your feedback, and helping me see your side of things.

I appreciate that solid strive for improvement and welcome feedback.
and that it appreciates the time of all the people that are trying to make
solid better if it by answering questions in discord.
I appreciate the people that went out of their way to open an issue or even make a PR
based on feedback in discord.

I think we need more volunteers, that can identify feedback in discord server
and are willing to open issues to make sure they are tracked properly
and that the feedback is not lost.

I once provided docs feedback in discord and @edemaine amazingly just created a PR
I think this is the kind of motivation and actions that should be acknowledged and encouraged.
I am sure we can find volunteers in discord that will be happy to contribute their time
to help the project, I have done that without anyone even asking, just because I followed
@edemaine example.

[davedbase]

Thank you for the kind note @mizulu.

Good communities are built with good intentions and the road for respect goes both ways. As community leader I have to constantly strike a balance of being fair and considerate to everyone. I'm really glad that you came back to the discussion to express your perspective and to appreciate ours. If you get a chance I think it's worth reaching out to @LadyBluenotes to express a more direct apology just as she did to you. That's just a suggestion though and would go a long way to making her feel comfortable.

I think we need more volunteers, that can identify feedback in discord server and are willing to open issues to make sure they are tracked properly and that the feedback is not lost.

Absolutely. We could always use more support. Finding good, reasonable volunteers who are familiar with OSS standards isn't easy though.

@LadyBluenotes and @edemaine are fantastic and good-hearted people who make the community more accessible and friendly. That said, the reality is that volunteers are self-selecting — we can’t assign or demand that kind of dedication. This isn't a business or corporate organizational structure. The people who tend to stay involved are those who continue to show up, express interest, and actively engage with the project over time. It’s a natural process, not a closed one, and we remain grateful to anyone who has contributed along the way, whether they’re still active or not. When they are treated poorly I will always step in to protect them but also inform all parties of our standards as a broader OSS community.

Have a wonderful day and thank you again for recognizing the work from the community. We appreciate your involvement in the community as well.

Ps. Thank you for properly opening a new issue for this item #1164

[mizulu]

Absolutely. We could always use more support. Finding good, reasonable volunteers who are familiar with OSS standards isn't easy though.
I see, I did not know about the difficulties and scarcity of finding good helping hands.

@LadyBluenotes I apologize again, I hope that I made it clear, here and before that
my intention was not to offend you, my intentions
were poorly communicated( and that is my fault), I recognize that this offended you
and that is regrettable. I have recognized my mistake. and in the future if I to provide feedback it will be
with a much more careful considerations.

I do appreciate your apology as well, and it does say a lot, because it was mostly my fault.

[mizulu]

@davedbase
#1161

we should also look into re opening this PR so it can go through a proper review
and reach a final conclusion.