Training Effect Not Calculated

[ycazam]

Hi all,

New User and I'm working with the following setup:
Garmin Forerunner 265
Peloton Bike+
Window App GUI

Looking for help on ultimately VO2 Max. But for now, Training Effect and Load were not calculated on my most recent ride on the Peloton, or the 10ish from before I selected to sync. Garmin Connect does show the training effect for any of the imported Peloton ride.

My method was to broadcast data from watch to bike, and also start a separate activity from the watch itself.

The resulting sync from P2G does provide great stats like HR, Power, Cadence, Speed, Intensity Minutes and even TSS/IF does calculate. But it is missing Training Effect and Load, and Temperature but that is less important.

Am I missing anything? I also created an account on Tacx. I also tried to do the sync after changing the device info to the same that matches my native Garmin watch activity (except Manufacturer ID which I set to 1, couldnt find that). Convert to FIT and Upload to FIT are selected.

Was I not supposed to also start an activity from my watch?
Is there anyway to download the almost 100% perfect file from P2G and add/merge the missing data from my native Garmin activity?
Do I have to wait some time for it to be calculated? I waited a few hours and nothing changed.

Any help is appreciated.

[mcgonago]

I am in the same boat - I am also using the Peloton To Garmin (P2G) application to sync my activities to garmin.

Yes - everything is there except Training Effect.

Without Training Effect - Training Status and Load are not recorded.

I have read elsewhere that Garmin calculates Training Load using Firstbeat Analytics - which requires specific data (hardware?) from your watch.

This specific data is not pulled down by P2G for upload to Garmin connect.

I am pretty sure we are s%Ht out of luck here.

Any help is appreciated.

[mcgonago]

Thinking...

When on the Peloton - you can go to HR on your watch, select options, and hit Broadcast HR to Peloton.

Then - start a indoor bike activity at the same time you start Peloton workout...

Stop and save Garmin activity at end.

I "think" the Garmin will only have raw metrics for Training Effect - not all the other nice things the P2G includes in their .tcx files

Will try it...

[mcgonago]

Bug with P2G saved tcx files

You need to rename the TrackPoint (with capital P) to Trackpoint (lowercase P) before uploading to Garmin connect

[ycazam]

Bug with P2G saved tcx files

You need to rename the TrackPoint (with capital P) to Trackpoint (lowercase P) before uploading to Garmin connect

Did that end up working for you?

Do you now get Training Effect?

Are you also on Forerunner 265? I chatted Garmin support and they 'assured me' it wouldnt work with Tacx, and said it should work with Zwift. I havent yet tried to spoof the file to make it appear as such.

[mcgonago]

Tried using the watch "broadcast HR" - Peloton does see it...

As expected - Training Effect is not included in saved .tcx

99% certain - the only way to get Garmin Training Effect score is to record activity from the watch

Garmin does not export (expose) its data for how it determines Training Effect (Firstbeat Analytics)

Though - I seem to recall Zwift rides that get uploaded to Garmin do have Training Effect. That fact seems
to indicate that Peloton could do whatever Zwift does when uploading activities to Garmin?

[mcgonago]

The change allowed all the graphs and tracking data to show up - except Training Effect I have read - the only way to get garmin training effect metrics is to capture activity using (on) the watch There is a chance - broadcasting HR to peloton - and then using p2g - training effect may show up (with no graphs of other cadence, speed, power, …) Pushing activity to Strava through peloton app shows all data (Strava generates its own training (relative) effect) I would be ok with training effect only on Garmin (the training load metrics on Garmin are my go to for fitness tracking) Will let you know what I find

…

On Thu, Nov 7, 2024 at 1:48 PM ycazam ***@***.***> wrote: Bug with P2G saved tcx files You need to rename the TrackPoint (with capital P) to Trackpoint (lowercase P) before uploading to Garmin connect Did that end up working for you? Do you now get Training Effect? Are you also on Forerunner 265? I chatted Garmin support and they 'assured me' it wouldnt work with Tacx, and said it should work with Zwift. I havent yet tried to spoof the file to make it appear as such. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#670 (reply in thread)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AQYILMFRVZF2BQWZN7CJ4R3Z7OYXVAVCNFSM6AAAAABQYPHF4GVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43URDJONRXK43TNFXW4Q3PNVWWK3TUHMYTCMJYGEZDQNI> . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: <philosowaffle/peloton-to-garmin/repo-discussions/670/comments/11181285@ github.com>

[philosowaffle]

Training Effect has been a difficult metric to solve in the past, it works for some people and not for others, I'm not sure we have ever isolated exactly why that is.

For what its worth, TE and Load both show up without issue on my P2G synced workouts.

1. My personal watch is a Fenix
2. My HR zones are configured on Garmin connect
3. I dont use my watch at all on the Peloton, I just wear an HR monitor connected to the bike
4. P2G is configured to upload the FIT file
5. P2G is configured to use the default Tacx device
6. I do not have an account on Tacx

[ycazam]

Hey, I have been luck with some warm temps outside, and have learn to dress for the cold so I havent needed to get back on the trainer until later today... Thanks for following up bud!

To respond of some of the thoughtful points you made:

• No, I do not have power meter pedals on your real bike. Only the Peloton which is built in.

• I think my maximum heart rate and heart rate zones configured correctly? I had two HRs set (one default and a lower one for Bike Activities). I have since set them to match my lower bike Max HR (181)

• I have no vo2 max results, likely from not having a Power Meter on my actual bike, and not doing any running which can also measure vo2 (although not sure if both exercises have their own vo2 caluclations) Based on your screenshots, it seems you have one from Running and one from Cycling?

• HR Zones are based off of my Percent of Max HR and using the default I believe.. 50%-60%/60-70/70-80/80-90/90%-100%

• Does LTHR matter at all? I set it to what I estimate to be mine, at 144.

• Power Zones are set up correctly I think, based off an FTP test I do around monthly on the PTon, (last test was 223W, and they are on the default zone settings). I havent touched Running or XC Ski Power Zones also in that menu area.

I gather you have Power Meters on your outdoor bike? That might be the crux of the issue, as it sounds everything else you have setup I am reasonably configured too.

I have not reached out to Garmin, but as I will be ramping up indoor training in the next few weeks, that is my next step.

[ycazam]

And based on the article you shared.. I think you are onto something:

"Before your Garmin Connect™ account can analyze Tacx or third party activities, a cycling activity needs to be uploaded from a Training Status capable device and a VO2 Max must be established. After an activity has been uploaded from a training app, you will need to sync your training status device with your Garmin Connect account for Training Status to update on the Garmin device then sync back to your account."

Well shucks. How can I do that without a power meter on a bike? Borrow someone? Or maybe I can spoof it some other way.

Sorry if this was previously mentioned on the thread or in the documentation, feel like I wasted all your time here now.

[ycazam]

Also, I do have training status working fine.

Wonder if by training my running and establishing a vo2 in that exercise, if it will carry over and allow for the cycling one to kick in and work like it does for you.

Guess I am running soon to give it a shot...

[mcgonago]

I think in summary a few things are important

• garmin needs 2+ weeks of activities that include v02 measurements
• I got the v02 from runs and zwift rides

I do not have power pedals

Zwift power is pretty accurate

My guess? A few runs will help

Not sure if you have tried zwift - ton of fun

[ycazam]

How do you use Zwift? From what I see it does look fun.

Can I use my PTon for it?

What is your setup like?

[DinoChiesa]

It works for me, like @philosowaffle describes.

1. My watch is a Forerunner 965, but I think that is irrelevant because it is not involved in the data exchange.
2. My HR zones are configured (auto computed based on HRmax) on Garmin connect
3. I don't use my watch at all on the Peloton, I just wear an HR monitor connected to the bike
4. P2G is configured to upload the FIT file
5. P2G is configured to use the default Tacx device (or, no change to its default. In fact I could not find how to change the device, in the config file - I am using p2g_console, not the UI version)
6. I do not have an account on Tacx

I am using p2g_console v4.3.0

And after I upload the fit file successfully, I can see the VO2max stats. And training effect.

[ycazam]

By chance, do you have a power meter on your outdoor bike, and/or have you gotten a VO2 Max previous while on a cycling or running activity outside?

[anlesk]

got the exact same setup and can also see training effect in Garmin.

@ycazam I have pedal-based PM on my outdoor bike (Assioma Favero) and had my VO2Max changed in the past based on those.
Also using footpod (Stryd) for running which calculates running VO2MAX

[DinoChiesa]

do you have a power meter on your outdoor bike, and/or have you gotten a VO2 Max previous while on a cycling or running activity outside?

I do not.

[RJHug00]

I use a different [VBA] implementation to build my FIT file, but I get a computed Training Effect when the FIT appears to have originated from a legitimate Garmin watch. I never found a way to get Training Effect computed without the FIT containing a legitimate Garmin device (the FIT uploaded, just no TE calculation). I identify the device as a retired VENU2, complete with its actual serial number, that I have associated with my Garmin account (but it is no longer my primary wearable). I make Peloton record heart rate from my Garmin chest strap during the ride so it comes back in the Peloton download along with power and cadence.

I never got around to experimenting to see if I could make the FIT appear to come from my [primary wearable], which I'm guessing is the boat most people are likely in.

[RJHug00]

Oh, and yes, I wear my primary Garmin watch while on the Peloton. The watch often warns me I'm experiencing a period of high stress during the ride because I don't tell it I'm doing any particular activity. I've never experimented to see what Garmin would do if my primary watch recorded a ride while I was also claiming that another watch recorded the same activity [with power and cadence]. You can see from this image that its already a bit confused about the stress it detected and when the exercise made stress measurement worthless.

For my purposes, what I have it doing is good enough.

[ycazam]

By chance, do you have a power meter on your outdoor bike, and/or have you gotten a VO2 Max previous while on a cycling or running activity outside?

[mcgonago]

@ycazam - are you still having problems seeing TE?

[RJHug00]

@ycazam - I only ride the Peloton Bike+ [indoors] with its built-in power sensor, and my only VO2 Max tests were done indoor on a treadmill. Not sure what that tells you; not entirely sure your questions were actually posed to me.

[DinoChiesa]

I only ride the Peloton Bike+ [indoors] with its built-in power sensor

same

[jeetshah26]

@ycazam did you ever get this to work. I too do not bike outdoor and started using a peloton to get some variety in workouts ,but i cannot get any Training status or load to be calculated which means the watch always disregards peloton in load :(

[RJHug00]

@ycazam - The pic below shows my Peloton rides of the last week included in Training Load. As discussed before, the rides' FIT files must appear to originate from a Garmin device for this to happen. I have never experimented to see if it works if the FIT file identifies my normal primary wearable; I always identify a different watch that it also associated with my Garmin login.

[jeetshah26]

@RJHug00 interesting. I am changing my device to use my current epix device id. hopefully i start getting the data soon. i used the device id by exporting an existing workout and peeking at the tcx

[jeetshah26]

Well, that causes an interesting problem. if i use my current watch, it still doesnt calculate anything, but my watch also does not then sync this activity and the counts on my primary watch for weekly stuff is off. i'm going to stop chasing this and just let it use tacx.
I even went to the extent of deleting the activity from connect and putting the fit file on my device and no results. and unfortunately i dont have another garmin device on my account to setup with this.

[RJHug00]

Can't say that I blame you for giving up. It shouldn't be this difficult, and yet it is.

My Garmin award for stupidity still goes to the stair stepper activity, which provides no means anywhere for entering the number of floors climbed.

[yetdog]

So - interesting occurrence here. Love this past discussion - helping me to understand a ton - so thank you!

Situation:

• Installed P2G, all good there.
• Bought and setup Epix Gen 2 TODAY
• Updated P2G to use my real device ID

I went through the setup for my peloton ride today, whereas I recorded an indoor bike activity on the watch, and then discarded it after I was done. I then used P2G to upload the ride, and sure enough it shows the training effect as hoped/expected.

However, I then went to sync a Peloton ride from 2 days ago, when I still did not have the Epix watch. It uploaded fine, but no Training Effect info attached!!

I exported and compared both .FIT files, and they're practically identical in structure/data except for the actual trackpoints. But the trackpoints themselves have the same metrics in both files. The file from today's ride (while wearing watch) didn't seem to contain any unique markers vs the one from two days ago, before I had the watch.

Could Connect be talking BACK to the watch and confirming that the watch was "alive/active" during an activity? From what I gather, TE is actually calculated on-device, so only rides that happened while I was actually wearing the device will calculate those metrics? Does that make sense?

Thanks y'all.

[RJHug00]

Yes, the VENU2 is what got me into this ecosystem, and what had been recording run activities back in the day. Its in the junk drawer now, but It remains identified on my Garmin account with the newer EPIX2 as my primary wearable.

Lots and lots of this is flummonxing; I don't understand what Garmin gains by keeping so many of the details secrets we have to uncover by all manner of exhausting experimentation. I don't know enough about the Edge 1040 to know if it could be a viable source of a FIT ride.

Something else I noticed in my notes from experiments of yesteryear - the TE calculation seems to require the FIT file (from Peloton) to contain heart rate data. I certainly don't remember the details of the experiment that led to that conclusion, but I do know that I have had Peloton record HR from my chest strap ever since.

[philosowaffle]

This is starting to sound consistent with how Garmin (in my opinion) effectively paywalls VO2 Max. From other threads of research we arrived at a similar conclusion that Garmin does do most of these calculations server side (not on the device itself as they claim) and that they only do the calculation if they think you own a particular level of device.

Unless of course, Garmin is sending these uploaded files to the personal device to get a calculation that is then sent back to the server with the result. But that sort of design choice would be surprising to me.

[RJHug00]

In my specific case, I can state categorically that GC is not sending the file back to a device for the calculation [but it does eventually send the activity to my primary wearable for inclusion in other displays]. The TE shows up server-side on GC web essentially immediately after upload and I do NOT maintain a continuously-connected watch through the Garmin app on my phone. Indeed, I only connect the watch to GC via the app once or twice per day.

[RJHug00]

And, specifically relative to VO2Max, its hysterical to me that Garmin thinks it worth paywalling, because it is SOOOOO wrong. In at least one forum post, I detail what the watch has been telling me and then what two separate professional lab treadmill tests computed. Off by roughly 20 percent. Don't get me started on how wrong the watch can be for heart rate. LMAO

[RJHug00]

But contrary to my last, we all know if you record a run or other activity on the watch, you can see the TE in the summary statistics on the watch before ever uploading it, and I know there are records/fields in the FIT file for the device to send its computed values to GC. The computation can be done both places, apparently. YET, as I noted elsewhere, there's some special secret handshake for whether GC uses the TE values from the FIT or computes its own values.

[DinoChiesa]

Not sure if this is relevant, but ... there is an odd thing I see when using the p2g_console app to synchronize .... the time on the ride seems to be dated in the future. So any ride I sync this way doesn't actually show up until ... sometime "tomorrow". I am not sure if that is related to TE. The TE still works for me.

[mcgonago]

I do not see this when I sync an activity - shows up right away

Maybe a time sync issue with your computer?

How many out there still have issues with TE not showing up?

Owen

[mcgonago]

I use the UI version

[DinoChiesa]

The computer running the p2g_console app... runs in UTC time zone. So that may be related.

[RJHug00]

I upload the FIT through the web UI, and it shows up on the web dashboard almost immediately, 'labeled' with the correct local time that I actually began the ride. Computed TE is in the activity when I click on it through the web UI - not like you must wait overnight. I don't see the activity in the GC app or on my watch until the next time I sync the app, of course. @DinoChiesa - what timestamp do you see if you run a dump utility on the FIT file? runalyze dot com shows me a TYPE=0 creation_time in UTC that is properly offset for my local time and DST.

[DinoChiesa]

Thanks for that. I'll have to look again. It hasn't even bothering me so much that I feel the need to track it down further.

[Grafvonsteiner]

I have a Garmin Edge 540 but do not own a watch and I dont get any Training Effect data or calculations.
I just want to know if I understood the prior discussions correctly: Is the consensus that you need to own a Garmin watch to get Training Effect data and so on?
And the same with VO2Max: To get my synced Peloton workouts to count for the VO2Max, I first need to ride outside with a power meter?