OpenCloud
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Moving my thoughts here from the chat...
The website About section of the front page mentions 30 years, which makes it sound like OpenCloud made this project from scratch instead of building on the work of Owncloud, so maybe it is worth clarifying that this project specifically began in either 2024 or 2025 as a fork for xy reasons. I noticed Nextcloud describes themselves as beginning in 2016, which would be the year they forked from Owncloud. Good luck! |
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Thank you for the flowers regarding your questions:
feature-wise difference
Longterm: The focus of OpenCloud is to provide secure and reliable file sharing by doing one thing well (file sharing). we dont want to be a jack of all trades "wollmilchsau". Or to say it with the Unix philosophy: "Make each program do one thing well. To do a new job, build afresh rather than complicate old programs by adding new "features"." why did we fork? Peer ( @heinlein-support) gave a talk that might answer your question (german language): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cZKzpEw62M In general: thank you for reflecting our perception. we'll try to be more clear on these things. and yes, at the moment we chose to be a bit restrained on topics that could have a legal impact. that will change soon i guess. |
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@tbsbdr One question regarding the calendar integration. I would like to migrate to OpenCloud once calendar integration is there. Will the calendars be shareable between accounts? The wording on the corresponding ticket kinda suggests the opposite |
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The corresponding ticket is about the first step. We need to have separate tickets for the different scopes. The first iteration are calendars per user. But we are a share platform, shareable calendars are something we really need to implement. |
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Exactly, as Michael said. We follow a release-early, release-often approach, which means we take small baby steps (every 3 weeks). Calendar sharing will come as part of our development process over time. (And that reminds me that I need to write the release lifecycle docs as soon as time permits =D ) |
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Thanks for the quick answer, as long as it is planned I'm happy. Then I'll keep an eye out for those changes |
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Watched the talk, but still did not take away any actual reason for the fork in regards to Kiteworks or why users would benefit from migrating. Yes on open source being important in allowing forking, but other than that I didn't gleam any insight from the presentation. How open is the project willing to be? Is there any distinction between this project currently and Owncloud IS? If the answer is currently no, I encourage you to simply state that in regards to your feature roadmap for the future and how this will develop. Cheers! ❤️ |
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@tbsbdr Written like a true politician none of the actually relevant questions answered. Why are you actively hiding the projects origins? Why did you remove the original copyrightholder from the LICENSE and now use an invalid license? Why are the members of this repos organisation hidden? Did you steal owncloud IP and personell? Can I get sued for using this questionable project commercially? Why are you stating on the opencloud website that the heinlein group developed opencloud? |
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I will answer this once for all, and probably close this discussion afterwards, as it seems that this discussion is not going anywhere constructive.
We do not. We say on our website "The project is based on a fork of the open source software ‘ownCloud Infinite Scale’ (OCIS), ..." - see https://opencloud.eu/en/opencloud-community at "The foundation". We also said that on several conferences, you could read it in the press etc. There is no hiding.
We might have removed it from a few LICENSE files because these specific files are not supposed to contain the copyright notice, but the license text. In all files where copyright was rightfully claimed by any contributor we clearly left it intact. Of course. We do not think that we use an "invalid license".
Good point. We will discuss if we want to open it.
Please consult a lawyer who can explain the licenses used in detail. That is beyond a Github discussion.
I am not aware we do, but if nitpicking, it is true. There was no OpenCloud before the Heinlein Group started it. The website however states very clearly that it is built upon the open source code of ownCloud Infinite Scale and expresses our respect, refer to the link above. |
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Hi, I am Peer Heinlein, CEO of the Heinlein Group and also CEO and founder of OpenCloud GmbH. My colleagues have already provided correct and helpful answers here. However, I am also happy to answer any questions, as we maintain absolute transparency and presence here. However, this is only possible to a certain extent. In the past, Kiteworks threatened to take serious legal action against the team, against me personally and against our company. And even though we see no reason for this, we naturally have to be much more cautious than usual in order to avoid being drawn into legal disputes if something like this were to be used against us (regardless of whether it would be successful). Our entire approach and, of course, our communication is closely monitored by our lawyers, which naturally limits what we can say and how we have to say it. In this respect, I can understand the statement ‘that was answered like a politician.’ However, we have no other choice, and we don't like it either. It's not our style. But please don't blame us for that. We will not issue any statements or comments relating to the former company ownCloud or Kiteworks, nor will we make any comparisons. This also means that we cannot comment on whether this is a fork or not, what the code is based on, or any details relating to naming rights, etc. If the impression could arise that we want to conceal the fact that the code originated from ownCloud oCIS, this may also be related to the fact that we may not comment in a way that could be misunderstood as us wanting to profit unlawfully from the brand image of the old company and thus engage in unfair advertising under the UWG (German Unfair Competition Act). Similarly, we will not comment in detail on why OpenCloud was founded and what the specific details of all this were. But here too, it is important to note that this has nothing to do with a lack of honesty, appreciation or respect for the people involved, and that this is certainly not intended to be a falsification of history. There are now numerous articles in trade journals and/or news portals in which journalists have generally done their research well. Please understand that, for legal reasons, I must ask you to refer to these sources of information if necessary. But feel free to form your own honest opinion on the matter. I myself have been involved in open source and free and secure communication with my companies for over 35 years. And with this wealth of experience, we felt confident enough to found OpenCloud. I have always acted in a completely open and transparent manner and have never minced my words in any of my talks. I can only assure you that we have never had any interest in concealing, disguising or misrepresenting anything – and it has certainly never been in our interest or behaviour to take credit for the work of others. – Insofar as this is possible, which is only the case to a limited extent here. Best regards |
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Congratulations on establishing a new company, acquiring employees and setting up a new identity/communication etc. for the OpenCloud project 🎉.
However what I'm still missing, both on the website and in the official press release is: How will this project separate itself from OCIS? Does it have a different target group (e.g. Enterprise and academia vs. small companies?), different priorities, a different philosophy or a different license?
Basically: When should I choose OpenCloud vs. when should I choose OCIS?
I noticed multiple people asking the same question on the Matrix channel, too. So I think this is a very important piece of information.
I also understand that you can't speak for OCIS and there might still be legal dispute between the two projects – but still: The (technical and conceptual) differences between these projects are very important to potential users. So please put them somewhere on the website.
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