Presets for larger multirotors

[RCnator]

Current Behavior

Currently there is only presets for quads up to 7 inch.

Desired Behavior

Since I guess the name Inav stands autonomous flight maybe there should be presets for larger quads and not only racing size quads. In my case 15 inch.

Suggested Solution

Maybe add presets from 9 inch with 3 inch increments up to 18?

Who does this impact? Who is this for?

Quad and multirotor users, all skill levels.

Additional context

[intelligentpotato]

+1 on this.
I believe iNav 5 had a preset for 10" which was a fine starting point for everything big and slow, but they removed it in iNav 6. Additionally, it seems to me that they have changed the PID controller logic/sensitivity in iNav 6. I flashed iNav 6 yesterday, migrated the iNav 5 settings that flew fine and crashed upon take off by flipping over. The thrust graph for that "flight" looks like god damn saw teeth. My PIDs are 90 34 54 - basically the old defaults.

[MrD-RC]

You’re more than welcome to suggest actual settings that work with a range of different quad at those safe settings.

[RCnator]

Unfortunately I myself lack the skill and know how to do that but hopefully someone else picks up the ball.

[shota3527]

You’re more than welcome to suggest actual settings that work with a range of different quad at those safe settings.

Agreed, we need a safe settings for wide range of quads.

[agoliveira]

I would like to leave my +1 here. I just added a 10" to my fleet and I'm having a very hard time trying to make it work. It oscillates a lot. The funny thing is that I used inav 2.51 IIRC in a very large quad and worked quite well.

[Dronitoni]

I currently try to find the best PID's for my 14-inch Quad. Seems not that easy in INAV6.
This 14-incher is an old one which I was flying with a DJI-Naza controller in the early days.
Now I switched this Quad to a Matek H743 and the tuning work begins again.

[tims5833]

This is a quite old discussion and i am new to iNav but here goes. I have a 22" quad which had Matek H743 installed by someone who tried to help me get it going. Sadly it is unstable on takeoff and I'm looking for suggestions for PIDs to try ?

[tims5833]

ChatGPT came up with some really low numbers for the PIDs so I'm going to give them a whirl

[sensei-hacker]

You might want to carefully sanity check anything that comes from a predictive text, before applying it on a dangerous machine that is going to be flying around people.

[tims5833]

I have the machine chained to the earth for testing so risk is zero save to the propeller blade that got damaged in the attempt - I am now going to look at alternatives to Inav, any suggestions ?

[sensei-hacker]

I have the machine chained to the earth for testing so risk is zero save to the propeller blade that got damaged in the attempt - I am now going to look at alternatives to Inav, any suggestions ?

I would suggest that you start with the settings that have worked well for others, such as Ivan. Be aware the tethers will affect the flight, particularly if they aren't very light.

[RCnator]

I can see Inav 7 is out now but there is no mentioning of improvements regarding this issue unfortunately.

[MrD-RC]

I can see Inav 7 is out now but there is no mentioning of improvements regarding this issue unfortunately.

No one has put forward any suggested setups. AFAIK, no developers have quads over 7”. As already stated, someone with larger quads will need to make suggested settings which are tested by the community and work on a wide range of quads with the target prop size.

TBH, there just doesn’t seem to be that much interest. Maybe start a conversation on the INAV discord’s multi-rotor channel?

[MrD-RC]

I created the discussion on Discord. https://discord.com/channels/791437907478577172/1173188186382549032

[petrweigl]

is there some progress on this issue?

[MrD-RC]

There had been no preset recommendations. Also not a lot of interest on Discord. It seems like most people don’t fly quads that size.

[petrweigl]

I have quadcopter with 12inch props running on inav7, trying to tune it. I am getting poor performance … with my settings.

[RCnator]

A lot of us dont have a discord account, see above, and dont want to open up yet another online account, especially when we already have github.

For Inav to live up to its name I think there should be a bit more focus on larger multirotors rather than racing quads, but I also remember when we were contested requesting dshot, [https://github.com//issues/1489]

[MrD-RC]

The problem is there is simply not enough interest. And the INAV pilots who actually have these larger quads aren’t coming up with any suggestions for settings. These settings will need to work for a large range of quads in that size category.

So without any suggestions for settings, which are then tested by the community. The profiles cannot be added. If you guys with 10” quads want a preset. I’m sorry, but you’ll need to put in the legwork, experiment with the tunes, share findings with others to help come up with the settings. Without that. The presets you want won’t happen. The ball is in your court guys.

I’m going to convert this to a discussion. As that is now more fitting.

[Bloody-Badboy]

+1 on this. I have a quad with TBS Discovery frame 2213 935kv Motor 10" Props. Previously I was using Pixhawk flight controller and it was stable and smooth, now I am running Inav 7 but am not able to tune it. It oscillates too much I have been trying to tune it for the last couple of days but have not been able to. 🥲🥲 No luck.

I compiled nav 2.4.0 installed it on the board and applied the default 10" preset it's pretty much more stable and more flyable.

[Ivan29777]

Only problem with quads from 7 inch are vibrations. But my drons fly indoor for testing from 7 up to 16 inch. They are very stable. You need to know what you doing. Vibrations, filters, PID. Use Inav blackox log and pidtoolox. Drons from 7 inch are hard to tune. Some nice starting PID 55 75 35, if vibrations are not huge go for 60 75 40. Gyro filters in my 16 inch in 50hz all tuned in Inav 7.1. On the drons from 7 inch my flight controlers are in some 3d printed box. Moving air is so big. Why n3 and a3 have fc in box?. Good starting point for 10 inch is 7 inch setup from pawel only lower filters by 10hz. My fc its not on esc like you see aio tower... Its solo down centre of drone. Esc is back or upper frome fc. Thats how need to by and if you want to fly big dron you will need 3d printed parts. Or buy a3 or pixhavk

[Ivan29777]

Setup: Tarot 650 quadcopter, FC kakute f405 with inav 7.1.2., esc mamba 4in1 50a, motors 4114 400kv 16 inch prop. For testing I use 4s batteri 5200mah
Tarot frame was moded to lower vibrations:
3d printed links from motor to motor( 4 links) PLA
ESC is back and fc is lower the centre in 3d printed box. I use TPU 85 infill 100% for box
tpu dampers on motors and screws
My log file is here if someone help: Need some tune for PID but fly is good and stable indoor propwash test
blackbox_log_2024-09-12_115002.TXT

next project is 10 inch full printed and fly like 7 inch... I will add log for that BEAST. Project was 1 year old but i will update all and post logs.... Matek f722se, 35a esc, 10 inch props, fully printed only hands aluminium... compas with gps bn880
In this setup esc is up and fc down centre isolated. In all my project i use overkill of 2 1000 35v capacitors

[tims5833]

I have these PIDS from the 7" setup and am struggling with my 22" quad
Inav 7” blades
Roll 40:30:23:60
Pitch 40:30:23:60
Yaw 85:45: 0:60
Can you suggest a starting point for such a large drone ?

[Dronitoni]

I'm using this on my 14-incher.

[Dronitoni]

INAV 7

[tims5833]

Hi Sensai, the tethers were chains and yes they were not light but boy has this drone got some lifting power with 4 x kv170 motors and 12S battery power. Can you point me to Ivan's settings (I couldnt find them when I looked through the discussion) Brgds, Tim

[tims5833]

Hi Sensai, the tethers were chains and yes they were not light but boy has this drone got some lifting power with 4 x kv170 motors and 12S battery power. Can you point me to Ivan's settings (I couldnt find them when I looked through the discussion) Brgds, Tim

…

On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 at 10:48, Sensei ***@***.***> wrote: I have the machine chained to the earth for testing so risk is zero save to the propeller blade that got damaged in the attempt - I am now going to look at alternatives to Inav, any suggestions ? I would suggest that you start with the settings that have worked well for others, such as Ivan. Be aware the tethers will affect the flight, particularly if they aren't very light. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#9765 (reply in thread)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/BQYJJ7S46IYQ5YOFMRNFARD2WHFLTAVCNFSM6AAAAABOANGYXCVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43URDJONRXK43TNFXW4Q3PNVWWK3TUHMYTENRSGA3TONA> . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[sensei-hacker]

@tims5833 Ivan wrote above:

Some nice starting PID 55 75 35, if vibrations are not huge go for 60 75 40.

But really, trying to tune pids while it's chained down with heavy chains is likely to go badly.

[petrweigl]

i am using roll, pitch PID 55-30-48 for 15 inch and works nice. Its not critically dumped yet, but good enough.

[tims5833]

Hi Dronitoni and Sensei, the chains aren't really heavy, say about 1 Ib each, but I will take your collective advice and find some nylon cord for the next attempt (though it broke 4 aluminium carabiners on the end of the chains). I had the Mateksys H743 V3 flight controller and Inav 7.1 installed by a local "expert" who then crashed it a couple of times so I am being as cautious as I can. If you're on WhatsApp I could send you a video of the next attempt which hopefully will at least be worth a giggle. Thank you for your help. Brgds, Tim +64 212161770

…

On Fri, 28 Mar 2025 at 17:45, Sensei ***@***.***> wrote: @tims5833 <https://github.com/tims5833> Ivan wrote above: Some nice starting PID 55 75 35, if vibrations are not huge go for 60 75 40. But really, trying to tune pids while it's chained down with heavy chains is likely to go badly. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#9765 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/BQYJJ7QO3I7N2A2GGSKIZX32WTHVFAVCNFSM6AAAAABOANGYXCVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43URDJONRXK43TNFXW4Q3PNVWWK3TUHMYTENRUHA3DONI> . You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[Ivan29777]

Here is for 16 inch dron

H Firmware type:Cleanflight
H Firmware revision:INAV 7.1.2 (4e1e59e) KAKUTEF4V2
H Firmware date:May 31 2024 23:08:25
H Log start datetime:2041-06-28T01:04:00.000+00:00
H Craft name:
H P interval:1/2
H minthrottle:1127
H maxthrottle:1850
H gyro_scale:0x3f800000
H motorOutput:1127,1850
H acc_1G:2048
H vbat_scale:110
H vbatcellvoltage:33,35,42
H vbatref:1667
H currentMeter:0,400
H looptime:1000
H rc_rate:100
H rc_expo:40
H rc_yaw_expo:40
H thr_mid:50
H thr_expo:0
H tpa_rate:0
H tpa_breakpoint:1500
H rates:30,30,20
H rollPID:44,45,36,60
H pitchPID:44,45,36,60
H yawPID:50,45,0,60
H altPID:50,0,0
H posPID:65,0,0
H posrPID:40,15,100
H levelPID:20,15,75
H magPID:60
H velPID:100,50,10
H yaw_lpf_hz:0
H dterm_lpf_hz:40
H dterm_lpf_type:2
H deadband:4
H yaw_deadband:4
H gyro_lpf:0
H gyro_lpf_hz:50
H gyro_lpf_type:0
H dynamicGyroNotchQ:250
H dynamicGyroNotchMinHz:40
H acc_lpf_hz:15
H acc_hardware:3
H baro_hardware:4
H mag_hardware:0
H serialrx_provider:2
H motor_pwm_protocol:5
H motor_pwm_rate:8000
H debug_mode:0
H features:810028038
H waypoints:0,0
H acc_notch_hz:0
H acc_notch_cutoff:1
H pidSumLimit:500
H pidSumLimitYaw:350
H axisAccelerationLimitYaw:10000
H axisAccelerationLimitRollPitch:0
H rpm_gyro_filter_enabled:0
H rpm_gyro_harmonics:1
H rpm_gyro_min_hz:100
H rpm_gyro_q:500

[tims5833]

CH8 was in ANGLE mode and I have not changed it as yet - so far I've only used CH5 to ARM and the LH stick for revs. I hadnt realised a 1 deg offset on the ground due to slope would matter as I assumed it'd sort itself as soon as it lifted off. But I will check by getting it level and seeing what Inav sees then. At this point I'm thinking the ESCs might need calibrating as I saw that mentioned in a youtube video but as yet I haven't found the instructions on how to do this in Inav.
After that I was wondering whether I need to thoroughly check out the motors for their impedances etc. Also I have 4 electronic spring balances and was thinking I might try measuring the thrusts of all four motors ... any more thoughts would be gratefully received.

[Ivan29777]

Thank you for the info Ivan. It may be that my unstable hovering issue may be down to motor/ESC calibration rather than PIDs as when flying on the ground with no propellers fitted I am finding the throttle stick does not control RPM exactly. Once the throttle is increased from idle the motors seem to have an arbitrary element where the revs rise and fall even when the stick isnt moved. I'm only going on sound at this point but it does seem that the TX is not in control of the motors and pulling back to idle isnt always successful. Any thoughts ?

Without propellers dron goes wild because you gave it throttle in Angle mode. In blheli you have to adjust it for a large drone. stick comand its not problem if you use dshot protocol. Can you post your log file. Check if you have adjusted the motor pole correctly. Lower the motor idle power. But again I say if you test without propellers in angle mode it is normal that the drone does not know what to do. Check the rotation of the motor and propeller.

[tims5833]

I'm sure the motor rotation is correct and props also. UBLOX protocol has been set for navigation and STANDARD for ESC - what should I use DSHOT protocol for?
We are having wild wet weather after months of drought so will put up a logfile as soon as I can fly and work out how to retrieve the file from the "onboard SD card"

[sensei-hacker]

I hadnt realised a 1 deg offset on the ground due to slope would matter as I assumed it'd sort itself as soon as it lifted off.

It'll be sorted out BEFORE the high side lifts off. The low side will lift off first. By spinning the motors on the low side faster.

If course, if there are no props on those motors, the ones on the low side will just spin faster and faster, trying to lift that side, but never succeeding.

But I will check by getting it level and seeing what Inav sees then.

As I recall, it uses 0.1° increments internally. I may mistaken. But yeah when you command it to level out, it will keep trying to level out until it's at 0.0°.

The bigger picture here is you can't test flight characteristics without flying.

[Ivan29777]

Watch a few videos on FPV University https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phafJYNzTR0

[Ivan29777]

blackbox_log_2024-09-21_162042.TXT