On defining solid particles to measure temperature and radiative heat fluxes #14409

Mandy-jh · 2025-03-24T06:09:58Z

Mandy-jh
Mar 24, 2025

Hello, we are currently measuring temperature and radiative heat fluxes by defining solid particles and comparing them with fundamental experiments we have carried out. However, there are a couple of problems in the process that have been bothering us for a long time that we have not been able to solve.

Could you please help us to see if there are any obvious errors in our code setup?
And we feel that the temperature obtained from the simulation is significantly higher than the experimental temperature, which setting should we change to reduce the simulation temperature appropriately?
What is the reason that the simulated peak values of radiative heat fluxes match the experimental values well, but there are negative values in the early part of the simulation?
We would be grateful if you could answer our questions!
F4_git.txt

Mandy-jh · 2025-03-24T06:15:03Z

Mandy-jh
Mar 24, 2025
Author

F4.fds
Generated by PyroSim 2023.3.1206
2025年2月23日 12:10:02

-------------User Section (not generated by PyroSim)-------------

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--------------------PyroSim-generated Section--------------------

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&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=230.0, F=0.457894/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=231.0, F=0.46678/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=232.0, F=0.477089/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=233.0, F=0.486028/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=234.0, F=0.497837/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=235.0, F=0.510884/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=236.0, F=0.522417/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=237.0, F=0.534477/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=238.0, F=0.545865/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=239.0, F=0.55774/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=240.0, F=0.568878/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=241.0, F=0.582294/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=242.0, F=0.593063/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=243.0, F=0.605386/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=244.0, F=0.61971/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=245.0, F=0.633283/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=246.0, F=0.647291/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=247.0, F=0.659548/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=248.0, F=0.67461/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=249.0, F=0.686656/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=250.0, F=0.699255/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=251.0, F=0.70963/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=252.0, F=0.721386/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=253.0, F=0.735579/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=254.0, F=0.747335/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=255.0, F=0.759895/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=256.0, F=0.770191/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=257.0, F=0.780302/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=258.0, F=0.78928/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=259.0, F=0.798641/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=260.0, F=0.805882/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=261.0, F=0.817073/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=262.0, F=0.828474/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=263.0, F=0.837887/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=264.0, F=0.847406/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=265.0, F=0.855173/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=266.0, F=0.862967/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=267.0, F=0.869576/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=268.0, F=0.878634/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=269.0, F=0.883716/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=270.0, F=0.8918/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=271.0, F=0.900607/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=272.0, F=0.908309/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=273.0, F=0.915774/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=274.0, F=0.922396/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=275.0, F=0.928479/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=276.0, F=0.933073/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=277.0, F=0.941683/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=278.0, F=0.946041/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=279.0, F=0.952808/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=280.0, F=0.958838/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=281.0, F=0.963512/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=282.0, F=0.968304/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=283.0, F=0.972306/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=284.0, F=0.975808/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=285.0, F=0.978191/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=286.0, F=0.984366/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=287.0, F=0.986104/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=288.0, F=0.990382/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=289.0, F=0.993766/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=290.0, F=0.995635/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=291.0, F=0.996886/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=292.0, F=0.997518/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=293.0, F=0.997242/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=294.0, F=0.99603/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=295.0, F=0.999453/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=296.0, F=0.998374/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=297.0, F=0.999796/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=298.0, F=0.999993/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=299.0, F=0.999572/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=300.0, F=0.998848/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=301.0, F=0.997189/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=302.0, F=0.995201/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=303.0, F=0.992568/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=304.0, F=0.993937/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=305.0, F=0.993792/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=306.0, F=0.993371/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=307.0, F=0.991488/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=308.0, F=0.98846/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=309.0, F=0.983958/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=310.0, F=0.978942/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=311.0, F=0.970726/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=312.0, F=0.963025/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=313.0, F=0.955086/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=314.0, F=0.943053/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=315.0, F=0.93094/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=316.0, F=0.914892/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=317.0, F=0.898935/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=318.0, F=0.879174/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=319.0, F=0.859966/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=320.0, F=0.837137/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=321.0, F=0.815032/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=322.0, F=0.794415/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=323.0, F=0.770546/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=324.0, F=0.747428/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=325.0, F=0.721202/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=326.0, F=0.695582/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=327.0, F=0.667/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=328.0, F=0.640722/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=329.0, F=0.611679/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=330.0, F=0.584203/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=331.0, F=0.557845/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=332.0, F=0.529039/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=333.0, F=0.502419/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=334.0, F=0.473521/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=335.0, F=0.446387/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=336.0, F=0.41712/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=337.0, F=0.390381/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=338.0, F=0.361707/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=339.0, F=0.335113/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=340.0, F=0.310454/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=341.0, F=0.284149/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=342.0, F=0.260228/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=343.0, F=0.234805/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=344.0, F=0.211621/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=345.0, F=0.187094/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=346.0, F=0.165858/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=347.0, F=0.143464/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=348.0, F=0.12361/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=349.0, F=0.10614/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=350.0, F=0.087787/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=351.0, F=0.072871/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=352.0, F=0.05723/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=353.0, F=0.045197/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=354.0, F=0.032598/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=355.0, F=0.023474/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=356.0, F=0.017036/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=357.0, F=0.010322/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=358.0, F=6.411563E-3/
&RAMP ID='burner_RAMP_Q', T=359.0, F=2.33028E-3/
&SURF ID='STEEL',
COLOR='GRAY 60',
MATL_ID(1,1)='steel',
MATL_MASS_FRACTION(1,1)=1.0,
THICKNESS(1)=1.0E-3,
GEOMETRY='CYLINDRICAL',
LENGTH=1.0E-3,
INNER_RADIUS=5.0E-4/

&INIT ID='THCP', PART_ID='Thermocouple Particle', N_PARTICLES=1, XYZ=4.33,0.16,0.23/
&INIT ID='THCP01', PART_ID='Thermocouple Particle', N_PARTICLES=1, XYZ=4.33,0.16,0.18/
&INIT ID='THCP02', PART_ID='Thermocouple Particle', N_PARTICLES=1, XYZ=4.33,0.16,0.12/
&INIT ID='HF', PART_ID='HF Particle', N_PARTICLES=1, XYZ=3.9,0.16,0.04/
&INIT ID='HF01', PART_ID='HF Particle', N_PARTICLES=1, XYZ=3.9,0.16,0.03/
&INIT ID='HF02', PART_ID='HF Particle', N_PARTICLES=1, XYZ=3.9,0.16,0.02/

&OBST ID='Obstruction', XB=4.28,4.38,0.11,0.21,0.0,0.02, SURF_IDS='burner','steel','steel'/
&OBST ID='Obstruction', XB=4.48,4.58,0.11,0.21,0.0,0.02, SURF_ID='steel'/
&OBST ID='Obstruction', XB=0.0,10.5,-0.02,0.0,0.0,0.24, COLOR='INVISIBLE', SURF_ID='glass'/
&OBST ID='Obstruction', XB=0.0,10.5,0.32,0.34,0.0,0.24, SURF_ID='steel'/
&OBST ID='Obstruction', XB=0.0,10.5,-0.02,0.34,-0.02,0.0, SURF_ID='steel'/
&OBST ID='Obstruction', XB=0.0,10.5,-0.02,0.34,0.24,0.26, SURF_ID='steel'/

&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh01 [YMAX]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=3.6,4.7,0.36,0.36,-0.04,0.28/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh01 [YMIN]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=3.6,4.7,-0.04,-0.04,-0.04,0.28/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh01 [ZMAX]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=3.6,4.7,-0.04,0.36,0.28,0.28/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh01 [ZMIN]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=3.6,4.7,-0.04,0.36,-0.04,-0.04/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh02 [YMAX]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=0.0,3.6,0.36,0.36,-0.04,0.28/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh02 [YMIN]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=0.0,3.6,-0.04,-0.04,-0.04,0.28/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh02 [ZMAX]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=0.0,3.6,-0.04,0.36,0.28,0.28/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh02 [ZMIN]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=0.0,3.6,-0.04,0.36,-0.04,-0.04/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh03 [YMAX]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=4.7,10.5,0.36,0.36,-0.04,0.28/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh03 [YMIN]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=4.7,10.5,-0.04,-0.04,-0.04,0.28/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh03 [ZMAX]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=4.7,10.5,-0.04,0.36,0.28,0.28/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh03 [ZMIN]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=4.7,10.5,-0.04,0.36,-0.04,-0.04/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh04 [XMIN]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=-0.4,-0.4,-0.04,0.36,-0.04,0.28/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh04 [YMAX]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=-0.4,0.0,0.36,0.36,-0.04,0.28/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh04 [YMIN]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=-0.4,0.0,-0.04,-0.04,-0.04,0.28/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh04 [ZMIN]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=-0.4,0.0,-0.04,0.36,-0.04,-0.04/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh05 [XMAX]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=0.0,0.0,-0.04,0.36,0.28,0.48/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh05 [XMIN]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=-0.4,-0.4,-0.04,0.36,0.28,0.48/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh05 [YMAX]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=-0.4,0.0,0.36,0.36,0.28,0.48/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh05 [YMIN]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=-0.4,0.0,-0.04,-0.04,0.28,0.48/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh05 [ZMAX]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=-0.4,0.0,-0.04,0.36,0.48,0.48/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh27 [XMAX]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=10.9,10.9,-0.04,0.36,-0.04,0.28/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh27 [YMAX]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=10.5,10.9,0.36,0.36,-0.04,0.28/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh27 [YMIN]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=10.5,10.9,-0.04,-0.04,-0.04,0.28/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh27 [ZMIN]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=10.5,10.9,-0.04,0.36,-0.04,-0.04/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh28 [XMAX]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=10.9,10.9,-0.04,0.36,0.28,0.48/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh28 [XMIN]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=10.5,10.5,-0.04,0.36,0.28,0.48/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh28 [YMAX]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=10.5,10.9,0.36,0.36,0.28,0.48/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh28 [YMIN]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=10.5,10.9,-0.04,-0.04,0.28,0.48/
&VENT ID='Mesh Vent: Mesh28 [ZMAX]', SURF_ID='OPEN', XB=10.5,10.9,-0.04,0.36,0.48,0.48/

&TAIL /

0 replies

mcgratta · 2025-03-25T14:10:47Z

mcgratta
Mar 25, 2025
Maintainer

Run the case with the latest FDS release. If there are still issues, create a small test case that demonstrates it. No one has the time to run and analyze a complex fire simulation.

3 replies

Mandy-jh Mar 26, 2025
Author

Here is the code from the validation file：

Below is a portion of our code for thermometry of solid particles：

Is the numerical simulation temperature higher than the experiment because we did not set the parameter HEAT_TRANSFER_COEFFICIENT？

mcgratta Mar 26, 2025
Maintainer

The test case thermocouples.fds is what we call a verification, not validation, case. That is, in this case, we are testing a certain part of the code. We set the HTC to 0 because we want to test the radiation only. If you are modeling a real experiment, you would not want to set HTC to zero because convective heat transfer might be important.

Mandy-jh Mar 27, 2025
Author

Thank you!

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On defining solid particles to measure temperature and radiative heat fluxes #14409

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