What do we want Open Source to look like in 10 years?

[mixmix]

Ok, so we've talked about what's wrong with open source, but what is it that we love, and what are we aspiring to.

A lot of the anger about this module is coupled deeply to values many of us share about this space. Let's name those, but also dream bigger - what are we trying to do (beyond keeping ads out of our faces).

You can extend this thread by talking about things like:
✔️ How open source is done (spare time, full time, part of companies?)
✔️ Who you'd like to be able to be doing open source
✔️ How being a full-time open source contributor compares to working in a company
...

What this thread isn't about:
❌ what's wrong - this is a blue skies dreaming thread, for bum-out analysis see this thread

[mryellow]

Ignoring for a moment that there is not much real commercial value to advertising impressions generated in this way.

I can't imagine a future in 10 year where development is largely advertising driven, if this future did eventuate I would imagine another future being actively worked on which attempted to escape from such a dystopia.

It would become a race to the bottom where users are eventually predated until the ecosystem once again collapses.

What do we want

"We" who is "we"? Why is this discussion so directed and restricted? Looking for nodding agreement there being something wrong with Open Source?

Who you'd like to be able to be doing open source

"What"

[Toxoid49b]

I'd like it to personally look like a bunch of neckbeards running Linux with a stretched-out jpeg of some anime girl as their desktop background just making software because they love doing it. In other words, open source as it was from the beginning.

More seriously, open-source software has been great for years now. There's nothing that I feel needs to change about it. There's already many avenues for monetary gain from open-source software that are very much well-established.

Of course, the main point of contention here is the idea of monetizing free software. The distinction between open source software and free software should not be discarded. The entire concept of free software is that it should be free, no strings attached. This categorization inherently prohibits any form of mandatory monetary gain. Typically, things like optional donations are acceptable so long as they are not required to access additional functionality.

Let me be clear that I am perfectly fine with all forms of software distribution, whether that be commercial, open source, free, or anything in between. I begin to have objections when software that was previously considered free suddenly changes models. It is, in my opinion, unfair to the users of the previously free software to attempt to monetize software after they've already integrated it into their workflow under the assumption that it was free.

If you require compensation for your contributions, consider starting with a project that is conducive to such from the beginning instead of hijacking an existing project. If you no longer wish to maintain software due to lack of compensation, consider finding a different developer who is interested in taking it over.

[mixmix]

@mryellow @Toxoid49b I'm marking your comments off-topic - I'm not interested in what you can't imagine here, I'm interested in what you can. Also, as stated this isn't a "critique" thread, see this thread for that

[modeco80]

I don't think it matters anymore considering this package is essentially a no-op now.

[Toxoid49b]

Looks like someone doesn't have any valid response so they just opt to censor. Thank you mixmix, very cool!

[sah2ed]

Monetizing open source is a very delicate act that involves carefully balancing peoples expectations, so it must be approached thoughtfully, otherwise it will only end up backfiring.

Dan Ariely's book Predictably Irrational goes into detail on just why this is a delicate undertaking, but the gist of it is that monetization presupposes market norms, open source on the other hand presupposes social norms. There are a few blog posts such as link 0 and link 1 that summarize the effect of mixing social norms with market norms: "Introducing market norms into social exchanges thus violates social norms and hurts relationships. Once this type of mistake has been made, recovering a social relationship is difficult."

Link 1 even has a handy graphic summarizing the differences:

For different funding approaches that have been tried, some of which make long-term contributions to open source sustainable, you can check out the lemonade stand repo.

[vweevers]

Where I'm coming from: I maintain a few moderately popular OSS projects. I haven't had to deal with angry mobs and I'm sorry that y'all do. I'll be writing this from the perspective of "we" the maintainers aka contributing members of the community, because I sympathize and because I believe non-contributing members can learn from it.

I love OSS because it's democratic and proactive. When we find a bug we take initiative to fix it ourselves. When we can't, we engage in fun discussions and creative thinking. When consensus can't be reached, we fork and continue to live side by side, still trading other modules. I love modularity in OSS, because we can be the guardian of one small part and give it all our love. I enjoy collaborating with people without either party having to acquire some kind of social status.

I also enjoy not worrying about money. I work on OSS one unpaid day a week - I can because I'm privileged and live cheap. I don't know a single maintainer that is looking to get rich nor is that realistic. Making a living though, that we can aspire to. OSS has a total market value of billions. Almost none of that trickles down.

We need money for those that otherwise wouldn't be able to contribute. Like a basic income guarantee, which'd ideally be solved on a societal level (hey, this is the blue skies dreaming thread). Developers shouldn't have to be procuring funds. Non-tech people, adept at finance, law, politics and other areas of expertise, also (unknowingly) rely on OSS and we need their help.

As we explore new technologies like AI it's incredibly important to be inclusive. We don't just need funding to maintain tech, we need it to give voice to marginalized people that can and will be hurt by new tech.

Lastly, I wish consumers would treat OSS the same as many maintainers: if you choose to use software that was shared for free, that's awesome and maintainers will do their best to make your continued use pleasant. But the risks are entirely yours. You never have a right to be angry. So think about what can you do instead. Take responsibility.

[rubyFeedback]

The problem with this issue is that it was started from another thread, where an upstream developer decided that he can force onto downstream users that they have to see ads.

It is somewhat understandable why this has been done (funding) - but it is COMPLETELY INACCEPTABLE. No permission was asked, so it considered a breach of trust.

As a consequence, mixmix started this issue here that insinuates that "we" want to look "open source" differently. This discussion is ok - but it is not ok to start it from a situation where misuse of users has already happened. All the continued abuse such as locking people out from discussions or telling them that you are not interested in their opinions CONSTITUTES FURTHER ABUSE, all based on a wrong premise to begin with - which is just horrible.

A big mistake was done in the first place, and rather than simply admit that this was a mistake, the abuse continues from people (== developers) associated with this. This is terrible.

I suggest to completely call it a day, and start discussions DECOUPLED FROM THE PRIOR ISSUE that has been created by a developer trying to milk off of users without asking them. THAT model that you describe is totally dead mixmix; it was never alive to begin with and should not receive any credibility to begin with.

It's ok to look at funding; lots of people do so, but there are numerous differences in regards to funding - compare spamming them with ads, to e. g. patreon. Two very different models.

People even pay for watching other people play video games, in a voluntary matter. I don't think anyone wants to pay to get ads displayed.

[mixmix]

off-topic @rubyFeedback . If you don't like the format, don't engage - it's a free world right

[AmazingTurtle]

no ads would be nice

edit: this answer is legit because thats how i see oss in 10 years, also this is a blue skies dreaming thread

[aniforprez]

If Open Source is honestly going to be CI logs stuffed full of interrupting ads stretching across my screen not allowing me to get my work done on time 10 years later then I think I'll just stop using OSS then. Thankfully people with more sense don't necessarily feel the only way to monetize their work is through ads on the CLI or the dev console

I don't understand how the way to go about this was to implement a solution FIRST and THEN have this discussion. Especially when the controversy is around a package that's a glorified eslintconfig file. I understand that FOSS is tedious and tough to maintain and get around and I definitely recognise that people want to be paid for their work. But chief, this ain't it