#78816 Question

[Mike-E-angelo]

#78816 was closed and locked, which I feel is an unhealthy workflow to ensure customer feedback is heard. Developercommunity does not do this, for instance, and allows follow-up posts for further conversation.

I will follow up with my questions here to ensure the problem is understood by both sides. 🙏

This is the editor's UI now for lightweight indicators indicating small bits of background work that take a few seconds

The issue is that during those few seconds (and longer in the case of my recording), that interface is live and blocking any access to code that is underneath the popup.

The feature has also been in for several years now

Maybe no one has reported it during this time, but that doesn't mean they haven't noticed it, or bothered to see if an improvement can be made. When it works in an ideal path, it may be less intrusive. In my case, it was constantly displayed for many seconds at a time and was getting in the way of repetitive refactoring tasks.

Closing out as just the expected nature of this sort of UI/UX.

By who, exactly? :) I would not ever expect any UI/UX to pop up and disrupt the user's workflow or to obstruct the path to access their own code, regardless of the amount of time it is displayed.

1. Is there a way to not accept the user's interactions with this popup (preferred)
2. It would seem that if the user clicks on it, it would be hidden/moved in some way
3. Is there a way to disable this feature altogether?

Thank you for your continued dialogue and consideration.

[CyrusNajmabadi]

The issue is that during those few seconds (and longer in the case of my recording), that interface is live and blocking any access to code that is underneath the popup.

That's an understood and accepted part of the design. Alternatives were explored and considered, and this was settled on.

Maybe no one has reported it during this time, but that doesn't mean they haven't noticed it, or bothered to see if an improvement can be made.

Ultimately, that's life. We will invest in the places that people do provide feedback on as that is their way of inherently stating what is important. We do not aim to guess or expend resources into the places where people are not providing feedback as that literally would mean unending work around hypothetical concerns, instead of work toward those we know are causing widespread issues for people.

And, inherently, we will prioritize and triage feedback and make determinations that something is not something we believe will get investment into changing as that investment is costlier than the value provided.

By who, exactly?

Us. We triage and make determinations on what we will or will not invest in. That's a normal part of development. And while we certainly understand that a triage decision may be disappointing to a particular group (including the person that perhaps filed the request) that doesn't change our analysis.

Is there a way to not accept the user's interactions with this popup (preferred)

I don't know what this means.

Is there a way to disable this feature altogether?

No.

[Mike-E-angelo]

We accept this.

I accept this too, as the interface is not blocked where the cursor is at, and is offset in some degree. Completion is under the carat, for example. In the case of the recordings I provided. I pointed the cursor, pasted, and the popup displays right over the cursor at the paste point, precluding any additional interaction. Neither the sighelp or completion does this, nor any other interface I can think of (I am open to other candidates).

It would at least seem you would make sure it does not cover the area where the user pasted.

We dont' view this as substantively changing the problem space.

I may be misunderstanding you, but the examples I provided are not problems and were used to demonstrate the expected experience. The popup is not like this.

to make the design work in the way you want

Way to make it about me. 😅 Not as much about how I want it, but more consistent with the rest of the UX. No other control blocks the interaction of the user like this, particularly with a common scenario such as copy/pasting.

Finally, please don't overlook my previous question:

Asked another way: why does this interface accept user interactivity? There's nothing that can be done with this interface except canceling it by pressing Esc, and this does not require focus to do so. So, why does it need to accept user interaction?

[CyrusNajmabadi]

Neither the sighelp or completion does this

Both of them do this. They appear where the caret is, occluding text, even when the user is just typing, not explicitly trying to invoke these features. both capture user interactions and need to be explicitly escaped to see or interact with the text behind. We do not view this feature as substantively different. You do an operation (in this case 'paste'). The feature pops up occluding text. It can be dismissed with esc.

We are ok with the behaviors here.

It would at least seem you would make sure it does not cover the area where the user pasted.

We do not find these experiences substantively different to warrant changes here.

and were used to demonstrate the expected experience.

We do not view the behavior here as problematic. And we view it in line with similar design principles that apply to auto popping up UI that occludes user text.

Finally, please don't overlook my previous question:

I don't feel like i have anything to add here. It accepts user interactivity because we think it should be interactive. For example, choosing to dismiss it.

--

At this point, the question has been fully answered. The design is both working within the principles we expect. And the feedback is not there to the point that we would consider changing it.

[Mike-E-angelo]

They appear where the caret is

Not over it, but near it. This is the difference. Additionally, when typing there is a causal flow to the activity, and these popups make sense as they help guide that flow. In the case of the popup, the user is pasting copied content for the purposes of modifying it, and this popup is immediately in the way, precluding further immediate action.

Yes, the user can press Esc to remove it, but will it also cancel the actions it's saying it's performing? What if the user wants to keep the actions being performed in place? It's unclear exactly what Esc does, adding to the concern.

both capture user interactions and need to be explicitly escaped to see or interact with the text behind

But neither of them occludes the immediate area of focus (carat), which is different from the popup under discussion.

It accepts user interactivity because we think it should be interactive.

"Because I said so" is hardly a noble design principle. It doesn't need to be focused for Esc to work, and there is no further explanation why it is valuable to do so. As it's currently understood, it's just in the way, which is why this is an outlier and should be examined further (which you have done, thank you 🙏).

And the feedback is not there to the point that we would consider changing it.

I understand and appreciate you taking the time to explore this with me. Thank you for all your effort out there in your otherwise outstanding product.

[CyrusNajmabadi]

We do not find these experiences substantively different to warrant changes here.

"Because I said so"

We triage and make our decisions. Ultimately that is exactly what is going on. I understand you do not agree with the decision and find these to be different from your perspective in a way that warrants differences here.

is hardly a noble design principle.

That is not part of our decision making process. And we do not intend for that to be part of our decision making process.

Put plainly:

1. we do not see it that way. that includes after reading your own views on how to assess this.
2. we do not feel that there is substantive information to warrant a change here.

Your feedback has been heard. We are stating that after triaging this we have no intent to change this currently. :)

[Mike-E-angelo]

Again, nodding along, @CyrusNajmabadi. Thank you for the opportunity to have the discussion. 🙏