flower bud breaking stage

[edenny]

The Budburst dataset includes a phase for when a flower or floral structure bud has broken to expose the new tissue inside (sort of the reproductive bud equivalent to breaking leaf buds).

Their specific definition is: “Flower sepals, the protective bud scales, have shed from the bud, exposing tender new growth tissues. The color of the flower may be recognizable.”

Should we add this or just include it within {unopened flowers present}?

[ramonawalls]

Given the show of love and the low cost of making a new term, I suggest we add it. Can track term creation here.

[edenny]

Interesting discussion! Making flower bud a synonym for unopened flower and then calling the breaking/bursting structure a "breaking/bursting unopened flower" makes sense to me and will work for the datasets I am working with.

Regarding inflorescences, most of the datasets I am familiar with are standardized across many species and thus don't distinguish single flowers from inflorescences. For this reason we came up with "floral structure" to include both arrangements. So whatever we decide to create for this breaking flower/inflorescence bud issue, we should create a parallel set for "floral structure".

[ramonawalls]

Per call with Ellen today, probably best to just add synonyms.

[ClaudHGE]

Hi @edenny
I'm looking into using floral structures instead of flowers in some cases and it seems to me that subclasses might be added. For example: 'unopened floral structure' should have as subclasses 'unopened flower' and 'unopened inflorescence'. Am I understanding it correctly?

Shouldn't there be an 'open inflorescence' class? I must mention that, in some eucalypt species, the inflorescence may be open while the flowers are still unopened.

I am based on the fact that flower and inflorescence are subclasses of 'floral structure'.

[unopened floral structure](https://ontobee.org/ontology/PPO?iri=http://purl.obolibrary.org/obo/PPO_0001027)

Interesting discussion! Making flower bud a synonym for unopened flower and then calling the breaking/bursting structure a "breaking/bursting unopened flower" makes sense to me and will work for the datasets I am working with.

Regarding inflorescences, most of the datasets I am familiar with are standardized across many species and thus don't distinguish single flowers from inflorescences. For this reason we came up with "floral structure" to include both arrangements. So whatever we decide to create for this breaking flower/inflorescence bud issue, we should create a parallel set for "floral structure".

[edenny]

It sounds reasonable to me to include an open inflorescence class, but I will defer to @ramonawalls on that decision. We don't ask observers to evaluate that specifically, but certainly others might!

[ClaudHGE]

Hi @edenny and @ramonawalls, I'm still thinking about this. I'd like to know if, in the PPO context, a 'reproductive bud' is or should be a subclass of 'floral structure'. This is because, if I'm not wrong, they appear mutually exclusive as subclasses of 'reproductive shoot system'.

Edit: @edenny I believed that 'floral bud' could mean 'flower bud' and/or 'inflorescence bud' but I've just realized that bud has two subclasses: 'reproductive bud' and 'vegetative bud'. 'Reproductive bud' also has two subclasses: 'flower bud' and 'inflorescence bud'. It turns out that an EXACT synonym of 'flower bud' is 'floral bud' and there are no synonyms listed for 'reproductive bud' (I was expecting 'floral bud'). Therefore, it is very unclear to me now whether I can use "floral" to mean either inflorescence or flower. I've come here because you mentioned the 'floral structure' to mean both or either. Maybe reproductive would be clearer? otherwise, the synonyms should be fixed.

Interesting discussion! Making flower bud a synonym for unopened flower and then calling the breaking/bursting structure a "breaking/bursting unopened flower" makes sense to me and will work for the datasets I am working with.

Regarding inflorescences, most of the datasets I am familiar with are standardized across many species and thus don't distinguish single flowers from inflorescences. For this reason we came up with "floral structure" to include both arrangements. So whatever we decide to create for this breaking flower/inflorescence bud issue, we should create a parallel set for "floral structure".

[edenny]

Let's go ahead and add this since Claudia has a use case and Ellen came across another for apple tree phenology "pink bud" stage.

[elhartley]

@ramonawalls Can you clarify what all needs to be done for this issue?

Should I be creating all or just some of the following terms:
breaking reproductive bud (alt. label = breaking floral structure bud)
breaking flower bud
breaking inflorescence bud

Interesting discussion! Making flower bud a synonym for unopened flower and then calling the breaking/bursting structure a "breaking/bursting unopened flower" makes sense to me and will work for the datasets I am working with.

I'm not sure what to make of this comment since flower bud and unopened flower are separate classes. Does it mean that I should also create a breaking unopened flower class?

Should I use "breaking" or "bursting" in the labels for these classes?

I'm looking into using floral structures instead of flowers in some cases and it seems to me that subclasses might be added. For example: 'unopened floral structure' should have as subclasses 'unopened flower' and 'unopened inflorescence'. Am I understanding it correctly?

Should unopened flower and unopened flower head be subclasses of unopened reproductive shoot system (note: in #87 we deprecated the floral structure class and replaced it with reproductive shoot system).

Shouldn't there be an 'open inflorescence' class? I must mention that, in some eucalypt species, the inflorescence may be open while the flowers are still unopened.

Has this comment been resolved by the existence of the open flower head class?

I believed that 'floral bud' could mean 'flower bud' and/or 'inflorescence bud' but I've just realized that bud has two subclasses: 'reproductive bud' and 'vegetative bud'. 'Reproductive bud' also has two subclasses: 'flower bud' and 'inflorescence bud'. It turns out that an EXACT synonym of 'flower bud' is 'floral bud' and there are no synonyms listed for 'reproductive bud' (I was expecting 'floral bud'). Therefore, it is very unclear to me now whether I can use "floral" to mean either inflorescence or flower. I've come here because you mentioned the 'floral structure' to mean both or either. Maybe reproductive would be clearer? otherwise, the synonyms should be fixed.

Should I add an alternative label to reproductive bud? If yes, should it be "floral bud" or something else?