Getting into tech without a Computer Science degree (Event date: 11/16)

[maggiechu26]

Event Updates

Anita will be sharing more on this topic in a 30 minutes virtual event on November 16th. Register via this link to attend the live event and receive the recording.

Details

• The tech industry is no longer a siloed industry that focuses on hardwares and softwares. It is now deeply embedded in almost every other industry. However, a lot of people still have doubts about getting involved or starting a career in tech.
• The idea that having a computer science degree is a must to get started in tech should be debunked.
• As a microbiologist who has successfully transitioned into tech as a Frontend Developer and advocate, I believe I am proof that with the right information and resources, anyone can successfully move into the tech field regardless of your educational background.

In this talk, I will share my personal journey and provide some valuable resources to help you get into the tech industry.

Speaker

Anita Ihuman - Github, LinkedIn, Twitter

Anita Ihuman is a frontend developer, technical writer, public speaker, and open source advocate who is passionate about building developer communities. She maintains several open source projects on GitHub.

What the speaker would like to know

• What else would you like to know about this topic?
• What would you want to take away from this talk?

Share your thoughts

1. Upvote ⬆️ if you're interested in this topic
2. Leave a comment to:
   • Answer the questions above
   • Share other suggestions
   • Or simply give some encouragement to the speaker! ✨

[j0214ack]

Also as a frontend developer, I'm curious about how you think about F2E career path. Do you have plans to learn other tech stacks?

[Anita-ihuman]

The world is your oyster
Honestly, I think you can decide to explore every tech stack as you grow in the tech field.
I started as a Front end developer, and right now I am trying to find a path as a DevOps Engineer and Advocate.
While also engaging in Open source for projects that are in different stacks.

SO, you can try out new stacks as you grow your skills so long as it's in line with your career goals.

[msjh80311]

I'd like to know your experience more about becoming a developer:

1. Which tech stack did you choose to start, and Why?
2. How did you make up your study plan? Do you think taking a formal lesson is required?
3. How to know if one is suitable to be a developer or not?

Thanks for your sharing~

[jenniferfu0811]

I love these questions and would love to know the answers too. Just curious, have you taken any formal lessons? Did you find them helpful?

[Anita-ihuman]

• I started off as a front end developer in Javascript (Node.js m React, Next.js, Typescript, Gatsby, HTML, CSS)
• Why, because I wanted to understand how all the awesome websites I use were put together.
• I had a couple of courses from Udemy, and also, tried out tons of videos on youtube. I also tried to join some mentorship programs along the way.
• Google became my best friend. Cause I had tons of questions too.
• Since I started during the pandemic, that gave me enough time to focus on my courses.
• Normally once you are able to set up your first website with HTML & CSS, you are already a developer.
• You just need a little skill improvement by learning a programming language(either Javascript or Python).

[Michael-Ackerman3956]

I have started by taking online courses from Udacity, back when there was an assigned mentor who would guide you along. I miss those times. Personally, I think it's not necessary to have a formal lesson. What I think is most crucial is indeed a mentor - someone who can review your code, give you a few pointers to improve at every turn and pay attention to your development. That's the reason why I am paying another freelance developer to be a mentor.

Learning as a non-CS degree developer/founder, I always feel that I am not suitable to be a developer because my coding speed is so slow. So slow because it's my first time building a specific feature, using that specific framework. But I still keep going because I get endless source of energy and motivation from being able to create a piece of product/service with my own hands. One should know it if the joy of creating something on his or her own (be it the entire product or parts of it) is one of the key priorities in his job/career/business life.

[iam-gopi]

The plan. I would like to know about the plan you had when you start preparing for the tech jobs. because many get distracted without the proper path for their destination. If you can provide a clear path and plan about it would be nice.

[Anita-ihuman]

Once you have reached the point where you can comfortably create a website(e.g. e-commerce websites, static or dynamic Landing pages), you can start applying for internships or junior roles.

My reason is, most companies don't feel you are a fit for the role especially when the only experience you have is watching courses and doing pet projects. They want to see that you have worked on real-life projects.

That is why most developers who are yet to get field experience are encouraged to contribute to Open-source. This gives you a feel of how an actual job would be.
Contributing to Open source gives you an opportunity to work with teams, fix real-life tasks, brings your inputs towards the projects growth.
All of these indirectly prepare you for a full-time role.
Most persons, even get internships in these Open source communities. That is a plus to your resume if you ask me.

[DKLBeowulf]

I am just now starting to learn programming and have chosen my journey with Python. I find it very rewarding so far , I tried to put myself through school with a CS degree but failed because of not having funds.

1)I am wondering what is a logical career path for someone with no degree but a burning passion for programming?

2)Coding Bootcamps are out of the question, I have the time but if I do not work I cannot pay my debts and living, is contributing on GitHub and putting projects up a good way to learn supplemental experience to make up for a degree?

3)I enjoy learning Python very much and would like to make a career of it, are there any other things I could do to make this happen sooner rather than later?

[Anita-ihuman]

I am really glad to hear your stody.
You can still be a python expert without going through boot camps.
Most persons say they can't learn on their own, but I personally think that's is an effective way.

• Get yourself a Python course on either Udemy of Coursera.
• Organise your calendar to suit your work hours, the time you take breaks, and then free hours.
• I understand that you have to spend hours working, so you have to learn time management.
• If you start by sparing 2hrs a day to watch that python course, you will be done within 3months. That is if you are combining this with work.
• Join a community of python developers, to help motivate you as you learn. You can also ask your questions there.
• If you use Twitter, even better. Start #100daysofpython, to help track your progress.
• Every day you can post about a topic you learnt and even ask questions about it.
• While you are at it, always remember to google and check youtube for videos about these topics videos too.

[Anita-ihuman]

Then continue with your contributions to python projects on Github. This will help you grow your experience alongside as you learn.
Before you know it, you will be a Python expert within a 6months of consistent learning.

[ChrisSchaller]

Having myself come through the industry via the non-traditional approach, one of the major challenges to finding meaningful employment is how to get around the recruitment "bots" and how to get to the interview stage. I'm eager to hear your journey, but a key practical take-away for people starting out now will be strategies to the interview, once you've decided that you're a good fit for the role.

[joycelee11]

@ChrisSchaller Curious what your background is and how you got around the "recruitment bots" yourself. Any interesting insights now that you're on the other side?

[ChrisSchaller]

So it was pretty hit an miss at the start, you either need 10 years experience, or other industry recognised certifications. I had to go with the certification path at the start, the MS learning certifications can be a hidden weapon if you're into the MS/.Net stack, you get certified, but MS partners get discounts and credits for having employees with certain certifications, so you actually bring in money, for small to medium businesses or startups, this can be a game changer in the order of thousands of dollars a month. The other thing that helped though was finding a good recruitment agency, they can be hit an miss, but you'll need someone advocating on your behalf, just sending in resumes will be tough, in 24 hours of online advertising I can get over 100 CVs to read through, when I'm reading that many, even I will toss the ones that don't stand out. Having industry certifications I actually now rate higher than degrees, it shows initiative and a genuine interest in the certification field, so I will put those at the top of the list. When I use a recruiter, I trust their judgement, so if you can get friendly with a recruiter, then that will help too ;)

[Sruiz7316]

It seems most internships are only geared towards degree-seeking students, similarly, many entry-level positions require CS-related degrees. That being said, how do you recommend self-taught/bootcamp graduate developers move past this obstacle to obtain their first developer position? I've heard of apprenticeships although they're rare. Any other ways to get a junior or entry-level developer role?

[Anita-ihuman]

Just as the number of companies that require a CS degree as many, there are also a lot of companies that do not necessarily need a CS degree.
So many CEO today don't have CS degrees and they understand that the best candidate for a role does not necessarily need a CS degree as confirmation.
Experience and skill set is what really speaks for you in most jobs that I have seen.

Depending on what tech stack you are, always subscribe to sites that send job postings relating to that stack.

• https://www.diversifytech.co/
• https://substack.com/profile/219155-cryptocurrency-jobs
• Check out YearOne they link recruiters with self-taught experts.

[shawninder]

I think this subject begs the question of the quality of education you get with some of these computer science degrees. I for one see a CS degree as neutral when hiring since tons of people come out of there with 0 competence. This goes beyond computer science too. Schools just don't evolve at the same rhythm as tech…

[jenniferfu0811]

Sounds like you have quite some experience with hiring developers! Curious to hear what the hiring process looks like? Do you browse through all the applicants' resume or does HR pass filtered ones onto you? What are some things you look for in resumes, if not education?

[Anita-ihuman]

I agree,
I am a Microbiologist by degree.
A Software developer by experience
A technical writer by Experience.
All of these I did not need a CS degree to learn, I bet I would not have learnt all these with a CS degree either.

[Michael-Ackerman3956]

I agree, but as a self-taught programmer learning from online classes, tutorials, stackoverflow, etc. I sometimes wonder whether it would have been easier if I had CS degree. Even now, I sometimes wonder if I should pursue part time CS degree.

[ChrisSchaller]

Would it have been easier, perhaps, would it have been drawn out and often boring... I think there are lot of hidden benefits to going through the formal education, part of the process is learning about the SDLC and a base understanding of project management styles and norms, the bits we skip in self paced learning. I often think about going back myself, even if you're heading down the startup or solo career path it might be more beneficial to study in marketing, accounting or business management, something to compliment the skills you have already built up, especially around the business or project management area. One of the benefits to this is that you are less likely to fall back into old habits, but with some experience under your belt, you are already closer your final level of incompetence AKA management, don't dwell on the past, look to the future. If you do go back to a CS degree, try to pick one that does NOT use the language that you have become comfortable with, you will tune out at the places you think you can and will miss the important information and might end up right back where you started.

[ChrisSchaller]

There's another angle to this, regardless of how you get there, the first roles you land will be crucial to forming the long term skills and habits that will carry with you through the rest of your career. While you are a junior, and you are still in a stage of life to accept junior/apprentice/internship rates you want to get access to good mentors and great working environments. You want to start in an environment that offers actual mentorship, that is not just looking for cheap labor. That is the risk, without having the formal education we tend to undervalue ourselves and are more likely o jump at the first opportunity, but without the degree it is even more important to find the right start. Your first job should not be your forever job, but it should be more than just paying the bills.

[jenniferfu0811]

The growth mindset is really apparent here and I love it! Do you have any tips for junior devs on how to identify companies that will give them the opportunity and resources to grow? What are some practical advice you might give junior devs to help them avoid jumping into something that simply pays the bills?

[Anita-ihuman]

while you are trying to grow your skills, try growing your network alongside. In as much as your skills will prove your expertise, your network takes you farther than you can imagine.
You can grow your network of friends and partners by

• Learning and engaging in communities( Twitter, Slack, StackOver flow, )
• Teaching ( creating tutorials, articles or workshops)
• Engaging in public speaking
• Contribute to Open Source
  All of these grow your confidence level, network and improve your skillset.

[ChrisSchaller]

I have to preface this with an acknowledgement that the way I did it, really didn't work. The turning point for my understanding was when I was in a mid-senior role. We had a few graduate devs come through in a group and after a bit over a year I was asked to provide a reference for them. When being grilled by these recruiters I realised it was hard to provide examples of the qualities that a non-graduate junior recruiter was looking for, because we hadn't provided the experiences and opportunities that I was going to be looking for in their replacements. There's a whole aspect of workplace culture that is important, but from a skills perspective I think it is important that your first development workplace needs to follow good SCRUM or Agile methodologies. You're homework is to research what that means and what it might look like ;) Even if it's more consulting instead of programming the same rules still apply, ask about their process, how do they review progress and measure performance, what is their approach to ship deliverables to market. How many hours a week during business hours are allocated to professional development and do they facilitate it in anyway or are you just allowed to learn in your own time or work on your own ideas. How often do they perform peer reviews and is everyone involved or do you only report to one person for this role. You are looking for an organisation that has clear policies around these concepts, that they can justify them and that they can demonstrate to you how successful they are at implementing them.
As a junior you want to avoid an organisation that is a startup or is desperate for cheap labor. You will find it hard to grow in that sort of environment and will likely learn a lot of bad habits about how to cut corners and how to justify those cuts. Lets be honest, you're going to be a burden for the first few months and will have to learn everything on the job So look for a successful organization, look for a larger team, you want something larger than 5 of you in the same team, not the whole organisation, but the immediate team that you will be working. Any smaller and there are elements of process, accountability and management that are easy to ignore and harder to be exposed to.
The natural progression in CS is to either be a leader or manager of a team, or to go into business for yourself. Draw this as a straight line starting at step 1 as a junior and step 5 as a manager or director of your own startup. As the years progress and you take steps towards the ultimate goal you get less opportunity to be part of a well managed team and more responsible for managing that team. If you haven't been exposed to great teams to learn from at the start, you will have a hard time being a great leader if you don't have the experience of working for or with one.
Identify what you bring to your next team, be it passion, knowledge or experience, even though the furniture and PCs will likely outlast your stay at your first couple of jobs, don't let those material elements offer more value to the business than you. Avoid the job where you are just another bum in a chair, focus on the key (positive) aspects that make you unique, then don't fight too hard for a position, let the recruiter/agent/employer convince you why you should work there. Don't undervalue yourself just because you don't have and professional experience yet, your life is already rich with IT user (and other real life) experiences that can still be beneficial.

[ChrisSchaller]

Definitely find an open source project to contribute to! Open source communities are the perfect place to get a start because you are forced to work to specific requirements and justify your contributions. The general remoteness of contributors and diversity of backgrounds and personalities on open source projects means that the communication skills you can pickup here will help you in all walks of life.

[Anita-ihuman]

Open-source contributions open doors to

• Diverse networks (I got my first role as a result of Open source engagements)
• Direction towards your path
• Improved skills sets
• Experience to add to your resume

[this-ting]

Even without traditional CS degrees, what would you say are the key CS foundational topics that one would still need to study up on as a frontend developer, or web developer if they have not gone through the traditional means?

[Anita-ihuman]

Well, becoming a web developer is not dependent on the CS degrees.
There are some persons who don't end up as web developers even with a CS degree.
Getting a good understanding of the topics below will set you on the right path.

• Introduction to the web
• understanding HTML & CSS
• Deep dive into Javascript or any programming language you choose to become an expert at.
• Then understand the different frameworks and libraries that you will use as you grow your skills.

[jenniferfu0811]

Thank you all for your thoughts and questions. All of the questions and experiences you shared were very insightful and the discussion was very engaging. Here’s a quick summary of the top themes that were brought up:

• Alternative learning methods for programming
• Landing your first developer job w/o a formal CS degree
• Continuous growth in skills and network after becoming a developer

@Anita-ihuman has already shared some of her own experience and thoughts in the thread, and we’re happy that she’ll be sharing more in a 30 minutes virtual event on November 16th.

Here’s the link to register for the event! If you can’t make it, register so we can send you the recording afterwards.

Hope to see you all soon.

P.S. @hypebright will also be sharing her talk, “Building software from scratch, the user-centric approach,” on November 24th. Here’s the link to register for Veerle’s talk.