RPi5 and glass Dome upgrade

[jsalsburg]

I wish to be a BETA Tester.
By the time April, 2025 rolls around, I will have upgraded my Allsky camera to a RPi5 with a glass Dome.

There are several reasons to use the RPi5.

1. Way faster than its predecessors.
2. Boots from MVMe Drive offering high speed Terabyte storage eliminating reliability problem with SD Cards.
3. Two Pi Camera ports.

There are several reasons to employ a glass Dome.

1. No yellowing.
2. Does not scratch like acrylic Domes.
3. Thermally more transparent than plastic Domes for better DEW performance.
4. Blocks most UV B rays reducing solar rays bleaching.
5. Rain-X compatible.
6. Stays cleaner than plastic due to harder surface.

[EricClaeys]

I bought a high-quality and expensive glass dome with anti-reflective coating awhile ago but haven't installed it yet.

What do you want to beta test?

[chvvkumar]

What glass domes are you guys using? I want to buy one if it is not hundreds of $.

[jsalsburg]

Freeland Jay Salsburg ***@***.*** <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGczWwysaexXMO5rgn-hBDw> Is there a new version of Allsky to be published? I am interested in perhaps testing this update on a RPi5.

…

On Wed, Jan 29, 2025 at 5:48 AM Eric Claeys ***@***.***> wrote: I bought a high-quality and expensive glass dome with anti-reflective coating awhile ago but haven't installed it yet. What do you want to beta test? — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#4256 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABFLI46WOFJ7V5ZEXBFX6YT2NDL4RAVCNFSM6AAAAABWCFQC62VHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43URDJONRXK43TNFXW4Q3PNVWWK3TUHMYTCOJZGU4DIOI> . You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[EricClaeys]

Yes, we plan to release v2024.12.06_01 in a few days. Both Alex and I are running it on Pi 5 with NVMe disks.

[jsalsburg]

Freeland Jay Salsburg ***@***.*** <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGczWwysaexXMO5rgn-hBDw> Hello This is the glass dome I ordered. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CNSSL926?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1 It has a problem, there is no lip on the bottom to secure it to an enclosure. I have surmised a way to mount it. Silicone Seal sticks to glass very well, so this is how I will attach a mounting ring/surface to it.

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On Wed, Jan 29, 2025 at 6:40 AM Kumar Challa ***@***.***> wrote: What glass domes are you guys using? I want to buy one if it is not hundreds of $. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#4256 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABFLI46KBTJ67CBXKMXIVB32NDR5NAVCNFSM6AAAAABWCFQC62VHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43URDJONRXK43TNFXW4Q3PNVWWK3TUHMYTCOJZGY2DAOA> . You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[EricClaeys]

The dome I bought is a high quality one with an anti-refective coating and was several hundred dollars. It also has no lip, but they do sell it with a lip and optionally with holes in the lip, but that cost a few hundred more.

[bbillp]

A Pi-5 is overkill if you want to save some money, I’ve been running a Pi-3b for years and even with the December 2024 update and use either the web interface, FTP and VNC almost daily.   Maybe the difference is in creating the daily video …… Bill

[EricClaeys]

@bbillp, Bill,
I agree that for many users, the Pi 5 is overkill, especially if the extra cost is a concern.

There are some benefits to the Pi 5:

• timelapse are created significantly faster, which means more images can be included.
• mini-timelapses (for people that create them) can contain more images and be created more often.
• more modules can be run without slowing Allsky down. A lot of people are adding environmental sensors and overlays with a lot of fields, and processing all that data can be CPU intensive.
• the extra speed is helpful for people that use their Pi for more than just Allsky, or for people like Alex and me that are constantly installing Allsky for testing.

[jsalsburg]

Freeland Jay Salsburg ***@***.*** <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGczWwysaexXMO5rgn-hBDw> The main reason to go to a PRi5 is operating on a large MVMe Drive; there is a real advantage of multiple terabytes. There are unexplored "Modules" that will require the speed and capacity of the RPi5: * live-flight tracking and labeling aircraft, * coordination of multiple camera locations to triangulate (meteor, UAP) * distance, trajectory, and direction (server app, Kalman Filter sensor integration), * tracking satellites, * identifying and labeling wildlife, * License Plate Recognition, * facial recognition, * identifying, tracking, and labeling wildfire, * image stacking for noise reduction and motion tracking. The RPi5 will allow shorter save durations perhaps several per second for more image granularity for better fast-moving-object identification. The SD card is a weakness in the technology; they are slow and prone to failure. Writing to them so frequently puts them at risk of failure. I will go to a RPi5 with a MVMe Drive and never look back.

[jsalsburg]

I just finished cleaning my camera. I put back my 180 degree lens, it has much sharper focus from the 170 degree lens I have had in it for a long time. The 180 degree lens has better light gathering properties also. Next month I will start setting up the RPi5-Glass Dome version.
http://oceanave.ddns.net/

[jsalsburg]

Just finished outfitting a new 8Gig RPi5 with a terabyte MVMe drive. Next step in applying the PI5 to a new Allsky camera, is an enclosure that will accomodate the new Glass Dome. I am contemplating PVC pipe. Over the past month I upgraded my WiFi routers/bridges which really helped the Allsky camera's reliability.

[jsalsburg]

[EricClaeys]

@jsalsburg,
Nice! Keep us updated. I am very curious how the Pi 5 handles the temperature in an enclosed case.

[jsalsburg]

Modified RPi Camera Rig. Having the Power Hat on top may not be the best place for it. I put it underneath. This may allow the Heatsink/Fan to work better and perhaps even provide some Dew mitigation in the Dome.

[jsalsburg]

Black outdoor plastic drain culvert with cutout from PVC corrugated Sign Board as mounting surface for attaching RPi, camera module, and base for the Glass Dome. I cut the PVC larger than the hole in the culvert, then used a high power soldering iron to crimp the edges down to size so the cutout will fit snugly into the top of the culvert. Heat treating the edges of the PVC cutout strengthens the outer circumference to provide additional support.

[EricClaeys]

@jsalsburg,

Having the Power Hat on top may not be the best place for it. I put it underneath. This may allow the Heatsink/Fan to work better and perhaps even provide some Dew mitigation in the Dome.

By any chance have you, or will you, test with the power HAT on the top and bottom to see if there is an actual difference?

[jsalsburg]

I am plowing ahead with building the camera. Thanks.

[jsalsburg]

Modified the PVC corrugated Sign Board and attached the RPi. Everything is preliminary at this point. I enjoy sharing.

[jsalsburg]

Installed New Arducam NoIR B0391 camera, its libraries, and support Apps on the RPi5. Took a test jpg. Seen here FYI, it is a 16 megapixel camera smaller than a sugar cube. The purplish tint is the color distortion of no Infrared Filter which should provide better night images (hopefully). I am tempted to put the RPI assembly on top of the PVC mounting pallete I fashioned for the Culvert enclosure. This will put the heat generated by the RPi inside the Dome which may be advantageous to resist dew. I must caution everyone that sunlight bleaching is a significant threat to electronics, so I may not move the RPi above the mounting plate for this reason. Perhaps a separate RPI mounting enclosure that floats on top of the mounting plate. I am in no hurry to get this version of the Allsky camera ready for mounting outside to afford me time to create a reliable instrument able to endure being outside.

[jsalsburg]

This is exciting. Here is the first image from the new RPi5 Allsky Camera. I reduced the red balance from 2.5 to 1. This camera is NoIR so the Red is way too bright. The Camera is not in an enclosure/Dome. Putting it outside for a day or two will show me how well it is doing.

[EricClaeys]

@jsalsburg, is this camera on the Allsky Map?

[jsalsburg]

Not on Allsky Map. I am still assembling it which may take a few more weeks.

[jsalsburg]

This is a low light image of the Allsky camera. It is tilted to point away from the overhang over my porch. The NoIR Camera is at the far side corner of the black plastic shroud. In the future when the RPi is in its enclosure, this shroud will be covered with another blackout shroud to block the camera from picking up light from the LEDs and to protect the delicate electronics from damaging sunlight.

[chvvkumar]

I disabled all the onboard LEDs on my Pi5 with these lines in the config file:

/boot/firmware/config.txt

dtparam=pwr_led_trigger=default-on
dtparam=pwr_led_activelow=off
dtparam=act_led_trigger=none
dtparam=act_led_activelow=off
dtparam=eth_led0=4
dtparam=eth_led1=4

[jsalsburg]

Thank you. This is helpful.

[jsalsburg]

This is interesting. The new NoIR camera is recording the stars through the overcast. My visible light Allsky camera is not showing the stars through the clouds. When I step outside, I cannot see the stars through the overcast. You can see the Big Dipper in this image. While this camera is not wide angle, it is very sharp and can record stars through the clouds. That is my other Allsky camera on the pole at the bottom.

[chvvkumar]

IR (depending on cloud density and wavelength) some times does pass through thinner clouds:

https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/questions/55719/can-terrestrial-infrared-telescopes-see-through-clouds-or-haze-sometimes-at-lea

[jsalsburg]

Recent image capture from new Allsky camera; a work in progress, fisheye lens coming soon.
This is the path of a fast mover, I guess is a meteor. Notice the time exposure is 10 seconds. If this was a satellite, it would have left trails in multiple images not just this one image. Satellites do not move fast enough to only be in one image. Also what I notice is that this streak is much brighter than satellites and shows varying brightness, satellites show slowly changing brightness.

[jsalsburg]

The red color is normal. In low light, if you turn on AWB, you lose detail in the low light image and the stream will be unstable; turn off AWB. The NoIR of the camera in low light will allow IR illumination which is Monochromatic. The imx477 sensor is different from most video chips, which are RGGB. The imx477 is RGBW which allows for better low light-low noise detection. Point the camera at a clear night sky, you will notice the camera sees better than your naked eyes.
Use imx477_noir.json in normal light (daylight), and imx477.json in low light (nightvision). The IR condition is normal with no filter. The IR filter is placed over the sensor for daylight color correction.

[EricClaeys]

@jsalsburg,

The imx477 is RGBW

What does RGBW stand for?

[jsalsburg]

Red Green Blue White

[stevedee]

@jsalsburg I just wanted to comment on your last image.
I struggle to decide whether a object is a meteor or some kind of man-made junk (aka satellites) so always interested in the images & interpretation of others.
In your image, the object appears as 4 major segments, each with 3 minor segments. Any idea why this is?

Also, I notice a blur to the right of this & other objects in your image. Is this just a focus problem?
Your exposure time is 10s. What is the gap/delay time between exposures?

I sometimes see objects in just a single frame, but think these are often satellites. Here is an example:-

My exposure is 30s with a 1s gap between exposures. This object does not appear in either images before or after this one.
I can't tell how fast this object was moving (it could have taken anywhere between 0 - 30s to cover this 'distance').
Satellites only reflect sunlight when they catch the sun. By zooming in on this object I can see lead-in & lead-out lines.

...so think this shows its either moving into the sun's rays, and maybe rotating and reflecting light from parts of the craft (Iridium flare?).

Like I say, I'm still trying to get to grips with the satellite vs. meteor thing!

With my Pi-4 I found the minimum gap between images couldn't be any less than about 700ms. Can you use shorter delays on the Pi-5?

[jsalsburg]

The pattern of bright-dim-bright in my image is the frame rate of the camera. This new camera is recording for 10 seconds with a gap of 2 seconds. It may be possible in the future to throw out every other frame to further determine exposure duration of a meteor. I will experiment with even shorter exposure times. This is why I am upgrading my camera, to get better and better imagery. Each choice of instruments has its own characteristics. Over time, I will become better at interpreting the new instrument's quirks and character. The blur is just that, focus blur. Your image is a satellite flare characterised by smooth transition. Notice in your image the slight focus distortion of the stars. Focus clarity of the sky will forever be an issue with cameras and lenses. It is prudent to include the exposure time in your images. As a perspective, satellites are moving hundreds of miles and thousands of miles per hour relative to the camera. Meteors move tens of miles and tens of thousands of miles per hour relative to the camera. Most meteors produce color trails, whereas satellites produce white trails. There is also the possibility to put a diffraction grating over the lens to record spectrum in the images. This would record definitive proof of the difference in reflected light from satellites and light generated by meteor burst.

[stevedee]

Thanks, that's very interesting.

[jsalsburg]

Just placed a new fisheye lens on the RPi5 Camera. This is a teststand, not the assembly to be mounted in a dome. There is a need to test it outside before mounting it in a domed enclosure.

[chvvkumar]

Just placed a new fisheye lens on the RPi5 Camera. This is a teststand, not the assembly to be mounted in a dome. There is a need to test it outside before mounting it in a domed enclosure.

Which fish eye lens is that? I would love to know your opinion on how you find it vs. the Arducam 180 Degree Fisheye.

[jsalsburg]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B18R4CS4?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title
2.1mm 3MP CS Mount Lens, Wide Angle CCTV Camera Lens Aluminum Alloy for Home Security Cameras, Approx. 28.0x10.50mm
$19.49

[spikked27]

I've been running on a pi5 for 6 months now, installed a WiFi 6 card and never looked back, super fast image load times on the web and packaged (tightly) into a weatherproof enclosure with a custom 3d printed bracket that holds everything.

[jsalsburg]

I notice two things; First - Sunlight can shine through the hole exposing what is below to damage. I use synthetic black felt as shrouds over everything under my dome to retard damage. I have to replace the shroud every few months from bleaching, not a big deal. Second - I use 2 cheap (5 for $8) amazon felt pocket warmers for dew under the shroud.

[spikked27]

The hole that the lens sticks through is pretty tight but a shroud would be good to get complete coverage. Dew hasn't been a problem through the winter, the pi5 runs a little hotter than a 3 or 4 and the active cooling fan moves around the air inside the enclosure; probably not as effective as a true dew heater but has been solid for me.

[spikked27]

Build aside, getting settings dialed in has been a long process

https://allsky.beantown-usa.com/

[jsalsburg]

Over the last few weeks I have experimented with resolving different shortcomings that, in my opinion, could be improved at least at a modest cost. I have concluded that the main shortcoming is the lens. I bought a cheap lens from amazon, while it gives adequate performance in allsky-fisheye coverage, it will not focus properly over the entire sensor. This is the problem with cheap lenses, they are not corrected for flat field. I will leave the camera outside for a few nights to detect and resolve any issues.

[EricClaeys]

@jsalsburg,

Take a look here in the "Lens Selection" section. It shows the % distortion for several lens. I've never seen that data before, but except for one lens, the distortion is pretty high. Perhaps your lens is the same.
It would be interesting to ask Jason on the Facebook Allsky page what % distortion his lenses have (I have several of them).

[jsalsburg]

I'm convinced the 180 degree coverage is not necessary or practical, at least for my purposes. While it seems there is much to be desired to record the entire sky (allsky), the distortion at the outermost edges of a 180 degree lens is only usable for its luminance and color. However, for robotic detection of movement like clouds, aircraft, satellites, and meteors, only about 60% of a 180 degree image is usable. I just ordered a 120 degree all-metal lens. I wonder if there are fisheye lenses that expand the edge's geometry and compress the center therefore bringing the edges closer and the center farther away virtually like conical focus. I know that lenses can be corrected in post but this defeats the purpose of image fidelity and usually depends on large sensors. No more plastic lenses, they seem to drift focus over time. I am fortunate in one way that it almost never freezes where I am, but it is exceedingly cloudy and damp.

[EricClaeys]

I bought this lens and it's rated distortion is -97.9%, whatever that means.
A lens very similar to the Arecent lens Jason sells is rated at 40% distortion.

I haven't done any comparison testing yet.

[jsalsburg]

I notice that my 180 degree M2 mount lens on my other Allsky camera is not as distorted as my new CS mount 180 degree lens on my new Allsky camera. However, my plans for the new Allsky camera is to detect meteors. Detection of meteors is not effective at the horizon, so a 180 degree lens is not appropriate in this application. Less than 180 degree coverage provides more pixels in the sky image directly overhead. My situation will always have buildings in the way of the camera at the horizon with lights in direct sight of the camera. Experimenting with different lenses and shrouds to block lights are necessary for my purpose of detecting meteors.

[EricClaeys]

@jsalsburg,
makes total sense given what you plan to use the camera for.

[jsalsburg]

Hoorah, this is the first clear night for my new Allsky RPi5 Camera. Notice the exposure time and Gain are maxed out. I have seen in the browser screen aircraft and meteors that would not be seen with my naked eye. I put a 150 Degree lens on it that appears to be very low in distortion. Let me call it a NearSky Camera. I want to be able to detect meteors. 180 Degree meteor detection of the horizon is not possible with a single camera/lens. It seems to be very sensitive to flares from nearby lights. Hopefully when I get it under a dome and on a high pedestal, the flares will be minimized.

[jsalsburg]

Update to Glass Dome ALLSky camera.
The idea I have is to make an enclosure with good endurance to long-term outdoor stresses. I start with an irrigation culvert where I removed enough plastic inside to allow my hand to reach all areas inside for easy installation and service of the camera and accessories.

The glass dome fits inside the culvert. While this is somewhat inconvenient, it will protect the delectate base edge of the glass dome sitting on a soft surface.

Modifying a piece of outdoor sign PVC, a semi-rigid cover/gasket fits over the glass dome resting on the top of the culvert.

e461a00-185d-4c78-963f-d04ac464f2d2)

Modifying a black Silicone Table mat creates an umbrella-like cover helping to protect the delicate components inside the culvert enclosure. The Silicone mat forms a good seal around the glass without stressing it. The glass needs to be held in place in such a way as to protect it from shatter forces while at the same time allowing it to be easily removed and cleaned when necessary.

[jsalsburg]

Finally devised a way to safely fasten the Glass Dome to the Culvert.

[jsalsburg]

Getting closer to mounting the new Camera.

[EricClaeys]

@jsalsburg,
Can you please explain how you are attaching the glass dome to the culvert?
I also have a glass dome without a flange and haven't figured out how to attach mine.
Thanks - Eri

[jsalsburg]

In this image there are several things to notice. Seen in previous images, I am using a black irrigation culvert, for its low cost, weather /sunlight durability, and ease of drilling. The glass dome fits inside the large opening of the culvert. While this is awkward, it protects the dome form damage along its vulnerable opening. Notice the culvert has a wide open top narrowing a few inches down. I am using black PVC construction board to support the glass dome on the middle PVC disk inside the culvert resting on the flange formed inside the culvert by this narrowing edge. There are 3 PVC disks inside. In the previous image you can see the disk at the bottom. The RPi5 is mounted below the disk in the middle. The camera-sensor is mounted on the top disk. The disks are various diameters to accommodate their positions inside the culvert and dome. The idea is to allow quick and easy access to the RPI and camera-sensor module while allowing the dome to also be removed easily.
The dome has a tightly-fitting white PVC collar around the outside. It can be moved up and down the outside of the dome but holds it securely with friction. A velcro strap is glued in place below the PVC collar to prevent the glass from coming in contact with the metal screws holding the 90 degree brackets outside the culvert also providing a flange spacer to rest against the inside diameter of the culvert. The velcro is glued in place with the TACK-IT glue seen in the image.
So the Dome is not touching the culvert but is held in place from outside so the dome can be easily removed to access the camera-sensor platform without having to remove the RPi and camera.
4 aluminum rods pass through all 3 PVC disks inside the culvert. The disks are not attached to the culvert except by friction-fit so the entire assembly can be easily removed.
In a previous image is a black silicone membrane that stretch-wraps around the dome and clips to the white PVC providing shingle-like protection from precipitation but can be easily removed, cleaned, or replaced.